Part-Time Holiday Allowance - Pro-Rata?

[NinnyNewName]

Hi all,

I work for a very small company: 25 hours per week, spread over 5 days. I have to work 5 days (Monday to Friday). The hours I work are flexible. So I can do 7 hours one day and 3 hours another for example.

I've been at the company for 2 years and this works really well for both myself and my employer (the founder).

I've always thought that my holiday shouldn't be pro-rata'd because I work 5 days. For example, if I want to take a week off I have to take 5 days, same as any other employee. However, he is making out that he's being overly generous by giving me more than he has to because he doesn't pro-rata my holiday.

In terms of hours I can see it's a bit complicated because of the flexible nature of how I work, but he knows I never take the piss (I wouldn't say: "oh, I'll take a day's holiday but make that an 8 hour day then therefore work far less during the week".

For a different reason he has amended my contract, but I want to query this point about holiday.

Can anyone with HR knowledge please tell me if I am correct and that I should get the same amount of days as any full-time employee? I've tried looking at links I can send him but things are complicated by the hours I work issue.

Thank you so much.

The flexible nature of the hours work would be difficult to set out in hours, but if you work every day but for 6 not 8 hours, then you should get the same number of days holiday at 6 hours not 8 hours.

As in your working day is shorter but the number should still be the same.

If you are in fact contracted in hours across the week it should be worked out in hours, so you work 25 hours compared to 37.5 (so 2/3) then you should get 2/3 of the holiday in hours, but then time off should only be calculated on your pro rata hours not the full 37.5 hours. Does that make sense?

Your holiday should be though of in hours. If standard week is 40 hours and you work 30 hours you should get 30/40ths of the holiday.

When you take a week off it is 30 hours (your 5 days) rather than 40 hours.

If you are working part time then obviously your holiday allowance will be pro-rata.

Why do you think you should have the same amount of holiday as a FT employee?

You should have the same number of days per year including bank holidays as a FT employee, but in hours.

If the FT people get 28 days per year, then so should you, so 28 x 5 = 140 hours per year. For every day's holiday, or a bank holiday, you use up 5 of your hours. A week off costs you 25 hours.

It's really not complicated at all, yet there is so much misunderstanding over this issue.

@femilangul did you read my post? It's because I work 5 days per week.

If a F/T employee wants a week off they use 5 days' holiday. If I want a week off I also have to use 5 days' holiday.

Yes, working out in hours works very well thank you to everyone who has said that. I was clear on it. My boss isn't so I'm trying to educate him but wanted confirmation first (we are very small and don't have an HR person).

Yeah it should be in hours. So a part timer might use 24 hours holiday for a week off but a full timer would use 38.

Basically your weekly pay should stay the same.

If he is making you use 5 full (8hr?) Days for a week off you are losing out.

But 5 of your days are less hours than a full-time employees - working it out in hours is best. You enjoy the flexibility of your working arrangement but that can't be reflected in the way you take holidays - your working day is 5 hours long and a day of your holiday should also be 5 hours out of an annual hourly holiday allowance, a working or holiday week should be 25. For full time employees they'd have to use the equivalent of 35 or 40 hours to do that, but their entitlement is likely to be in days.

If your holidays are NOT being pro-rated that is extremely generous and not something I've come across before (ex HR worker)! It is the hours you work, not the number of days that accrues holiday entitlement as a part-timer.

I can see why your boss is double-checking this - as a long-term part timer, this is actually quite a complex area.

I don't think there is one single way of working this out, and the fact that you flex your hours across the week does make it a little more confusing, at least superficially. For example, if you worked 5 hours a day for 3 days, you would then need to use two days leave to take the rest of the week off. But if you work 8.5 hours a day for three days, then you can take the rest of the week off without using any leave. And if you only worked 3.5 hours a day for three days, then you would actually need to use three days leave to have the rest of the week off. Bank holidays are an added complication, which need to be considered as part of your overall contract (for example, do you work 20 hours a week in a week with a bank holiday?).

Personally, I also work 25 hours a week, but it is spread pretty consistently over five days. I do however have 45 days of leave + bank holidays as part of my contract (rest of the company is on standard 37.5 hrs a week with 25 days + bank holidays).

The way I worked it out (and then presented back to my bosses - they were happy to go with my figures) was to work out the total number of working hours in a year for a normal FTE (including weekends, holidays, bank holidays etc), and compared this to the number of hours I work in a total year. This gave me an overall pro-rata figure (for me, it was 0.6) which we used to calculate my salary. A day's leave = 5 hours. So it is always clear whether or not I need to use leave or not to make up my hours in a week.

What I do, as we are flexible like this, is pay a sort of average but keep a tally. At the end of the tearI work out the exact pro rata holiday they should have had paid based on hours they actually worked and then they either get paid for extra or work a few extra ti make up for it.

Unless you vary widely, it should be easy enough to estimate and not be out by loads at the end of the year

Thanks all. This is how I would put it to him, which is what you are all saying?

Full time employees get 22 x 8 hr days off (176 hrs) off
I get 22 x 5hr days off (110 hrs) off

Therefore I only get 62.5% of annual leave - proportional to my "part time" nature so it is already pro-rata

Your contract should talk about your holiday leave as hours, not days.

So your holiday entitlement is prorated against a FTE holiday entitlement.

You won't get 25 days, you'll get your PT equivalent.

If I work 5 days per week broken I should get the same amount of DAYS. This is the crux of the matter.

What percentage of FTE do you do? That's the key thing here. E.g. I work 0.6 FTE so I get 0.6 of the FTE annual leave. The number of days is irrelevant. I do 3 full days at the moment. When my son starts school in September, I will go to 4 shorter days. But my FTE won't change. I will still work 21 hours a week.

As others, our AL allowance is calculated in hours not days. So 33 x 7 (Inc. Bank holidays) for full time staff, and 33 x 7 x 0.6 for me.

yes you should get the same number of days. your day is 5/7.5 of FT so pro rated already. but easier to talk of hours imo

If I work 5 days per week broken I should get the same amount of DAYS. This is the crux of the matter

If you work 25 hours a week over 5 days you are averaging 5 hours a day before considering Flexi working. Is this how it's outlined in your contract?

So if you want a week off, you'll be using 5x5 hours = 25 hours holiday.

If I work 5 days per week broken I should get the same amount of DAYS. This is the crux of the matter.

No.

Full time employees get 22 x 8 hr days off (176 hrs) off
I get 22 x 5hr days off (110 hrs) off

Yes, you both get 22 days off. That's right.

You're entitled to 110 hours (if fte get 22 days) plus a pro rata bank holiday allowance (40 hours if FTE have 8 days on top of their holiday)
You then book holiday in hours, in theory you could book 8 hours and then only have to work 17 hours the rest of the week, or book 2 hours and need to work 23, as long as your company agrees to that. You also need to book bank holidays in the same way.

I agree, you should have holiday allocated in hours. So if:

• Full time employees work 37.5h a week and get 25 days a/l a year

You work 52 weeks of 25hrs = 1300 hrs a year
FT employee works 52 weeks of 37.5hrs = 1950 hrs a year

1300 is 66.66% of 1950. Round that up to 67%.

FT employee's 25 days of holiday work out at 187.5hrs. You'd be entitled to 67% of that, which is 125.6. Again, to be generous, call that 126hrs of holiday a year.

This way, it's pro-rated, but in order to take a week off you're losing 25 hours of an allowance of 126, whereas a full time worker is taking the equivalent of 37.5 hours off an allowance of 187.5.

Your bank holiday entitlement should be separate as per above. When it comes to taking single days off rather than weeks I'd personally consider a 'day off' 5 hours as that's the average.

Surely you should just have the same number of days as FTE because you flexi your hours?

As long as you work 25 hour weeks and get 5.6 weeks off you're fine surely?

Where I work there are a lot of part timers. Our holidays are worked out partly in days, partly in hours, which relates to bank holidays. However, if I take a week off, (I work 2 days per week) that takes 2 days from my holiday allowance, so that's the equivalent of a full time person taking 5 days off, i.e. a week's holiday. Full time people get more holiday DAYS, but they work more days than I do, hence it works out the same. So I get, for example, 11 DAYS per year (5 1/2 weeks at 2 working days a week), where a full time person gets 27 1/2 DAYS (5 1/2 weeks working 5 days a week). I'm not going into the bank holiday hours, I work in retail and anyone who works in it might know what I mean when I say it's really complicated!

Your employer is correct and I suspect their accountant or similar has flagged this up. They need to give you holiday in hours not days to cover them in case your work pattern changes. If you started doing your 25 hours over say two and a half days then you'd effectively double your holiday entitlement.
From your perspective it makes no difference so I don't really understand why this it's an issue for you.

They have not given me holiday in hours. This is what I have suggested after this thread.

It matters because I was supposed to get an extra days holiday from this year. But now we are in (amicable) dispute about how many days I should get. He thinks I should get 15.

15 days would be fine IF you worked your hours over 3 days. Then you would get 5 weeks a year. Pretty average.

By making you take 5 days hol per week off you would only be getting 3 weeks off a year. Clearly ripping you off.

Especially if he expected your pay to remain the same.