Part-Time Holiday Allowance - Pro-Rata?

[NinnyNewName]

Hi all,

I work for a very small company: 25 hours per week, spread over 5 days. I have to work 5 days (Monday to Friday). The hours I work are flexible. So I can do 7 hours one day and 3 hours another for example.

I've been at the company for 2 years and this works really well for both myself and my employer (the founder).

I've always thought that my holiday shouldn't be pro-rata'd because I work 5 days. For example, if I want to take a week off I have to take 5 days, same as any other employee. However, he is making out that he's being overly generous by giving me more than he has to because he doesn't pro-rata my holiday.

In terms of hours I can see it's a bit complicated because of the flexible nature of how I work, but he knows I never take the piss (I wouldn't say: "oh, I'll take a day's holiday but make that an 8 hour day then therefore work far less during the week".

For a different reason he has amended my contract, but I want to query this point about holiday.

Can anyone with HR knowledge please tell me if I am correct and that I should get the same amount of days as any full-time employee? I've tried looking at links I can send him but things are complicated by the hours I work issue.

Thank you so much.

I wanted to keep my OP as simple as possible as I know this subject can be a bit confusing as we can see. But here's the background:

For 2 years I have misconstrued my contract. My contract says:

22 days INCLUDING bank holidays ie 15 days pro rata holiday and 7 BHs.

Because I have never, ever had less than 20 days' holiday in my 32 year working history, I assumed it meant 22 days EXCLUDING BHs.

This came to light when a new member joined the team and we were discussing holidays (she was quizzing me). She then spoke to our boss (start-up, under 4 employees) about her being unhappy with her holiday compared to mine (she is ex corporate and had less days than her previous roles).

He then raised it with me that I had been taking too much holiday (which in fairness he had signed off on each year (two full years)). He took it very well and said he knows I work over my hours sometimes and that the holiday I had taken was well deserved so not to worry about it.

After that conversation (and me saying I didn't feel my holiday should exclude BHs/be pro rata) he put my holiday up to 22 days EXCLUDING BHs like everyone else.

Last year was awful and the business nearly went under and we had to let a couple of people go although two new people joined after that. Because it has been so stressful and I am the only original member of staff and I had actually resigned at one point due to the how he was behaving and the stress of it all he said I could add one extra day to my holiday because I had been so loyal and stuck with it.

So in our (shared) holiday spreadsheet I upped mine to 23 from 22. Everyone else (except him) is on 22. I guess he wants us to all be the same.

He has sent me an email with a new contract saying it's 22 even with that extra day he chose to give me, and intimating that he's already been very generous because my holiday is the same as the two full-timers, even though I'm part-time.

So this is why it matters. I'm not happy with him thinking I'm trying to scam more hoilday than is my right. I'm not happy that he's denying me the extra day per year he said I could have. I'm not happy that he doesn't get any of this. I'm not happy to sign this new contract.

Look at it as weeks off. You should get the same number of weeks as the full timer.

Our full timers are entitled to all bank hols. Part timers only 3 or 4 depending how many there are in a year.

What he could do is simply put 3 full days hol through for you on your week off.

Unfortunately it is in hours not days, I had the same discussion when I had to reduced my daily hours and got hit with a reduction in holiday allowance. HR was quite determined they were right and a HR lawyer friend confirmed also that this is the usual procedure.

Luckily it only lasted a year. In your case I would suggest try to do change your hours that you do x full days.

You are right in that as you work every day albeit shorter/different hours your holiday entitlement is for the same number of days as a ft worker. The working it out as hours is an unnecessary complication. You attend the office each day in the same way that the other employees do, you may flex your working hours out over the week but that is immaterial provided that you actually work each day. From what you have said you should get 23 days this year not 22 and he is retracting his offer of an additional day.

If you take one day off then assume that is 5 hours, so as long as you do 20 hours over the remaining 4 days then that is fine. 2 days off in one week and you still have to make up to 15 hours etc.

5 days off is one week but you only get 25 hours pay, as is right, so you are correct in thinking it is already pro rata'd.

So in other words you are correct in being unhappy.

minimum holidays is 28 days ( including bank holidays) if p/t it is pro-rata
if OP is normally paid 25 hours per week for 5 days work if she takes a weeks holiday her holiday pay is 25 hours, her colleague that works 40 hours over 5 days will get 40 hours pay when she takes a weeks holiday so that is exactly as it should be

if OP takes 2 days off in one week she then needs to work 15 hours on the other 3 days

when people don't work full days their holiday should be in hours and basically if OP takes a whole day off 5 hours is deducted from her annual allowance if she takes an afternoon off having worked 9-1 then she only has 1 hour deducted as she has done 4 hours already that day however it is legitimate for a business not to allow fractions of a day off but rather expect OP to do 6 hours the next day

This is also affected by the fact your hours each day are not the same. If it's a fixed working pattern such as short Monday, long Tues, standard Weds/Thurs/Fri then that helps.

As everyone else has said, it's looking at it in hours for (full-time Holiday days plus Bank hols) x the proportion you work.

Then your booking system needs to let you book in hours, so you get fairness for the different length days and don't use up a whole day on a short shift, for example. You also need to make sure you do book annual leave for the bank holidays, so you're not getting that entitlement twice accidentally.

Thanks all.

Yes, I agree and think he either needs to trust that if I take one day off that's 5 hours and I need to work 20 hours over the other 4 days etc.

I just wanted to be clear because I absolutely will fight my corner on this. I remember trying to explain it to him re my original offer letter when I joined and he did up my days, but I don't think he understood fully hence him thinking he was giving me 15 days and me thinking I was getting 22. IMO even 20 days is poor. I've not had 20 days since the late 80s/early 90s. Generally I've always had 25 days which is what DH gets.

I also think he's made a mistake setting up a shared sheet to record everyone's holidays. Because now he can't give me that extra day without the other two full-timers seeing that I've got a day more. And if they don't understand what we've been discussing on this thread, and wrongly assume I should have LESS holiday because pro rata, that could cause issues.

I have been there almost 3 years. They have been there 2 months. One way he could get around this is to write into all our contracts that you get an extra day's holiday after 3 years and every year after until a maximum of 25 days. But imo everyone being privvy to everyone else's holiday records isn't ideal anyway: surely it's part of an HR record.

PS I ask him every 6 months or so if he's happy with the arrangement or what's me to do set hours (mainly because I feel bad swanning in at 11am sometimes, even though I can equally be working at home at 8pm and he does know that) and he always responds that no, he's perfectly happy with how I work.

You need to deduct in hours from your annual allowance if the days you work are not all 5 hours. So in any one week anything worked below 25 would be taken as al. You could work 4 days (ie a bh week) and still do 25, therefore the 5 th day would not need to be not deducted

22 days is not enough holiday for full timers. Do the get 8 bank holidays too? 28 days is the minimum for full time staff which is 5.6 weeks holiday.

You are correct in that you should get the same number of days or convert to hours. For 25 hours your minimum entitlement is 140 hours (5.6x25)

How many holiday days in total do full timers get?

www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

FTers get 22 days excluding public holidays which is 30 days in total.

www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

Most workers who work a 5-day week must receive at least 28 days’ paid annual leave a year. This is the equivalent of 5.6 weeks of holiday.

With the new info I calculate that you should get 150hrs holiday.

If full timers get 8x30 days off in total =240hrs then 25/40 × 240 = 150hrs. This does give you the equivalent of 30 days but your days are shorter than full time staff

In other words I think you are being short changed in your holidays

Thank you @dementedpixie.

A further complication is that the full-timers salary and benefits are based on a 40 hour week. Mine is based on a 37.5 hour week. It was a mistake to do mine that way (employee number one: lessons to be learned!) but it's just easier to keep it as is.

I haven't rtft so I hope I'm not repeating what PP have said.

We have many different shifts/days where I work (24/7 enterprise). Your holiday pay is worked out over the money you've earned over the previous 12 weeks.

If you work 5 days, you get 20 days' holiday plus 8 bank holidays as a minimum.

Where I work people think if they take the day off they work 7.5 hours/day, they'll get paid more when they're off than if they take the day off when they work 4 hours/day, for example, but that's not the case.

I hth

I just saw your message about the holiday records being public. Where I work the holiday records have to be locked away.

My friend and I work for the same company and both at 0.8 FTE but with different patterns, I work 4 “normal” days and she works 5 “shorter days” but we both do 30 hours per week. My holiday is pro-rated so I get 0.8 x the holiday allowance and bank holidays and she gets the standard holiday allowance. It all seems to work out as if we want to take a week off I take 4 days =30 hours and she takes 5 days =30 hours. I’m not sure how they handle her bank holidays though

Thank you guys.

On the subject of Bank Holidays, I thought all employees get BHs off regardless of how many days they work. EG if you're part-time but your days happen to fall on a Monday you get those off. If you don't work Mondays you don't get an extra day off? Is this right or not then?!

I work Monday to Friday so I assume I just get all bank holidays?

If you don't work Mondays, you are entitled for the BH to be accounted for elsewhere, pro-ratad for your hours of course.

Disadvantage if you do work Mondays is that a disproportionate number of your days off have to coincide with BHs if your employer closes on BHs.

The fairest way is for the annual leave entitlement including BHs for a full time worker to be calculated in hours and then it can be fairly proportioned for any part time worker, whether they work 5 short days, fewer standard days that include varying numbers of BHs, term time only or any other combination. We have a wide variety of working patterns and this is how my employer does it.

Thanks for clarifying. I'm the only part-timer and I work 5 days.

If you take the week off is he paying you 25 hours or more?