OK- fellow Labour Party members...

[BertrandRussell]

.....we’re all agreed that we need to be pragmatic, cynical and hard headed in the choice of the next leader and deputy, yes?

So, who? Who has a chance of getting us into power in the foreseeable future? Starmer and Philips?

It pains me not to be voting for a woman as my top choice this time.

When Corbyn got in I only voted for the women - Liz first, so you can guess my personal politics from that

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/1426525-Live-webchat-with-Keir-Starmer-Director-of-Public-Prosecutions-Tuesday-13-March-9-30-10-30am?pg=2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/1625739-Live-webchat-about-rape-and-violence-against-women-with-Keir-Starmer-Director-of-Public-Prosecutions-Wednesday-5-December-1pm?pg=4

May be of interest for those who didn’t read them at the time.

Not voting but would think Starmer is the best option. Great talent in Phillips, Thornberry, Nandy and Rayner for shadow cabinet would make voters hopeful for Labour again.

Thanks for those links YesThisIsMe I thought he came across at least as well as could be expected.

I bet he's the one the Tories are most scared of.

I think Jess Phillips is really crass and not very bright. She's loud, vain, disloyal and a shameless self publicist. I don't think her core values are genuine Labour either, so she's a bit of a fraud.
Her boasting about her own popularity is beyond embarrassing. Awful.

You could be describing Boris Johnson there

I did enjoy her book, I think she's genuine though I don't know for sure of course.

I'm undecided atm. I joined after the election with a vague notion of voting for Jess Phillips but then there's the whole spousal veto thing & she is relatively inexperienced so maybe she'd be a better option in a few years.

I don't really know much about the others so am trying to educate myself but am struggling to remember who's who. I'm starting to think I need to write actual, physical pros/cons lists!

Oh yes, I suppose I could..

Emily Thornberry used to destroy Johnson in the House of Commons when he was foreign secretary.

I think Jess Phillips is really crass and not very bright. She's loud, vain, disloyal and a shameless self publicist.

Exactly this. Is she planning to win an election by gobbing off? I don’t find her to have any charisma (not that our PM does, but she’s just not leadership material).

“ I think Jess Phillips is really crass and not very bright. She's loud, vain, disloyal and a shameless self publicist.
Any evidence?

I supported Corbyn but will be voting for Starmer for Leader. I'm waiting to decide about Deputy between Raynor, Butler and Allin-Kahn.
Absolute NO with knobs on to Phillips. For the same reasons as TeamLannister

I think Jess Phillips is really crass and not very bright. She's loud, vain, disloyal and a shameless self publicist. I don't think her core values are genuine Labour either, so she's a bit of a fraud.
Her boasting about her own popularity is beyond embarrassing. Awful.

Keir Starmer

Please not Dawn Butler. She's really v dim. Listen to her interview with Eddie Mayer on Youtube. She was flabbergasted at the idea that anyone didn't think the 'system' was rigged.

She only got her Brent seat because she used to work at County Hall in the Livingstone era. Immediately blotted her copy-book by thinking she needed 2 homes, even tho' she already lived in London, and charging the taxpayer for installing a whirlpool bath in the new one.

And talk about hogging the limelight... why does she always have to sit next to Corbyn, in full view of the cameras, in the HoC? She's a v junior minister and looks really sulky if someone else is sitting in 'her' seat. The Andrea Leadsom of the Labour Party.

It's Starmer and Rayner for me.

If Labour EVER wants to be in power again, Starmer. Elizabeth's Middle Way worked for a reason; like Blair, he's unlikely to threaten the world view of those who think they're in the middle too much. However incisive his intellect might be.

I've mistrusted Jess Phillips ever since she did that fashion photo shoot for the Daily Mail a few months ago. Told me exactly where her priorities lie (I knew a very experienced journalist who refused to write for the paper). I'd love to see David Lammy as deputy. Though I hadn't thought of Murray, he'd be a good choice too.

I’d still be interested in specific reasons for disliking Philips. Being gobby and self publicising, for example, seem requirements for the job that wouldn’t be considered to be a problem in a man. And I haven’t seen her being crass or vain that I remember?

Agree her gobbyness is a definite advantage and one of the things that I admire about her.

I have found Jess Phillips tends to be crowd pleasing with her comments - a populist MP.

But I like that she will speak out. I can remember her being very critical at the start of her career as an MP of self promotion and calling out MP’s who spent too much time promoting themselves rather than doing their work of representing their constituents

Few months later she has a book out and never off the tv and radio

I'm deffo gonna seek out interviews with Jess Phillips now. Have a feeling she's my gal.

BertrandRussell
Being gobby and self publicising, for example, seem requirements for the job that wouldn’t be considered to be a problem in a man.

I don't think being 'gobby' is a requirement or an advantage for a credible party leader or potential prime minister. A 'gobby' man would be a problem. I think Starmer, amongst his other qualities, has a measured, statesperson type presence which I think is important and I can't see in the other candidates (and definitely not in Boris Johnson).

Those of you struggling with examples of Jess Phillips being crass and gobby:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3665343/This-f-ing-personal-Labour-rebel-Jess-Phillips-screams-Corbyn-s-right-hand-man-Seumas-Milne-left-winger-threatened-blow-torch-neck.html

One of my concerns is that the ultra-reactionary Daily Mail, which is utterly vitriolic towards just about every other Labour MP, (and anyone who's not True Blue, come to that) seems to adore Jess Phillips. Doesn't sit well with me and makes me wonder what is really going on. I can't find the fashion shoot link but she was posing in various dresses (perfectly demure and suitable for her profession, obviously) and high heels. I don't even recall Theresa May doing that.

Jess Phillips reminds me of Tony Blair in many ways.

Phillips is self serving.
She's aggressive when it suits her and can bring forth a trembling lip to order.
She's a fraud.

I think this clip is instructive for anyone who clings to the purity of Corbyn and his acolytes. Watch the lady in red next to Jacquie Smith. She used to be an advisor to Tony Blair. "Imagine being in the 90s and winning elections..."

Theresa May did a fashion shoot for Vogue. The £1000 leather trousers occasion. Nicky Morgan fell out of favour for criticising the price.

I like Jess Philips. She's on the broadcast media a lot because she gives a good interview. She sticks out because she answers questions honestly. I heard her on LBC with James O'Brien this week. He was pussyfooting around and she said, 'If what you're asking is am I going to vote for Richard Burgon, no I'm not.'

But I don't think she's got the experience or the ability to unite the Party that Starmer has. Corbynites hate her because she's openly criticised Corbyn over anti-semitism and told Diane Abbot to fuck off. So we get the usual right-wing, Blairite trope - which is ridiculous.

Is Kier totally middle class? His dad was a tool maker and his mum was a nurse. He won a place at the local grammar school l think. But l seem to remember reading somewhere he never had anywhere quiet at home to study when he was at school.

He comes across as middle class, but his roots could appeal to lots of wavering Labour voters. He was named after Kier Hardie.

Anyway, he’s my vote. It is time that Labour has a female leader, but for me he is the best at the moment