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How can I prove this barman took prejudice against me?

93 replies

norkins · 10/12/2019 16:47

Out for a night out recently. Tried to order a drink at the bar and the barman refused to serve me. Initially on the false grounds that it would be irresponsible to serve me more alcohol (I'll come into the point that I was NOT intoxicated) then when I calmly challenged this he was very rude and agressive and claimed I didn't say please. He then refused to serve my friend because she was with me.
It was very odd and very upsetting. I had to stay at the venue and couldn't get a drink because I was with a group.
I was not staggering, slurring my words or in anyway inappropriate. I'd had three drinks to this point. Admittedly not sober enough to drive a car but in no way incapable.
I have many witnesses to this fact. One male who was in my group admitted he was drunk, spilt a drink on the bar (this was after I was refused) and they said nothing and continued to serve him.
I have complained. They said the barman is being disciplined for rudeness but that he was within his rights to refuse service under sensible drinking laws.
I'll just let it go now but the whole thing is fishy. The manager claimed one of my group encouraged the staff not to serve me. This is not true. So seems to me they are lying to cover up this inexplicable prejudice.
Did he just not like my face? Was it because I was a woman?

OP posts:
Berrylove · 10/12/2019 17:36

Was he serving other women? Couldn’t you have just got someone else to go to the bar for you? Maybe he knew you and just didn’t like you?

norkins · 10/12/2019 17:37

My boss, who was stone cold sober (driving) said his memory is clear. I was fine and the barman was just being an asshole.
I'm not a kid. I'm in my 40s. I know there was something odd in the whole interaction Smile

OP posts:
xChristmasJumperx · 10/12/2019 17:38

This is why they get away with it. Because if you highlight it you're just reprimanded for being drunker than you thought you were, you misread the situation, you're looking for compensation....

I get that it's upsetting and the more upsetting thing is that if you bring it up, you'll be told, no, you're wrong. You're wrong about what happened to you.

I would leave it. You wrote a letter. Hopefully that will put the asshole bar man on notice, even if you got a roasting on mumsnet.

norkins · 10/12/2019 17:42

I feel gaslighted!
Not after compensation. Just KNOW he took personal umbridge against me for some bizzare reason.
As I said, witnesses, men in my group pissed as newts still getting served etc

OP posts:
DesMartinsPetCat · 10/12/2019 17:44

He can be an arsehole to you without discriminating against you on a protected characteristic ground.

To establish that you have proof of discrimination, you have to have comparable proof- for example, if you were the only woman in the car and he served every drink man but refused to serve you, that may be a prima facie case of discrimination.

That, however, isn’t the case here.

IWorkAtTheCheesecakeFactory · 10/12/2019 17:44

Go back again. Order 3 soft drinks from a different bar tender. Then order a rum & coke (or whatever you drink) from the guy who refused to serve you. Don’t be overly polite or smiley. Just order your drink and see what happens. Don’t leave it too long so he remembers your face.

norkins · 10/12/2019 17:51

Tempting

OP posts:
OrangeZog · 10/12/2019 17:53

where did I say I was intoxicated? That's my point, I wasn't! Also I made it clear my male colleagues were very drunk and we're still getting served. Hope that helps

You said Admittedly not sober enough to drive a car because I'd had three drinks to this point so that would legally make you intoxicated. From your posts, I can see why you were refused. It’s the barman’s place of work and he has the right to be treated politely there.

I do hope that helps.

DesMartinsPetCat · 10/12/2019 17:53

Go back again. Order 3 soft drinks from a different bar tender. Then order a rum & coke (or whatever you drink) from the guy who refused to serve you. Don’t be overly polite or smiley. Just order your drink and see what happens. Don’t leave it too long so he remembers your face

Why would you spend money on up to four drinks in a pub that you feel has treated you badly?

I get that it’s frustrating but chalk it down to one of those things, move on, and find a different pub.

IWorkAtTheCheesecakeFactory · 10/12/2019 17:57

Why would you spend money on up to four drinks in a pub that you feel has treated you badly?

To test her theory and possibly put her mind at rest that he was/wasn’t being deliberately prejudiced against OP. If he refuses to serve her again it won’t be because she is (in his opinion) drunk because she won’t be drinking. So she has her answer.

xChristmasJumperx · 10/12/2019 17:58
Confused

It was bluntness who pointed out that if you didn't serve anybody who couldn't drive a car that would be a one drink limit.

Bit unpleasant to be so supercilious to OP @orangezog
She has told you she wasn't drunk. So you're choosing not only to believe a bar man whose account you haven't even heard, but also, to finish up by telling OP she wasn't polite, and that you're not surprised she wasn't served Shock Aren't you lovely!

norkins · 10/12/2019 17:58

@OrangeZog

If I was intoxicated, why were those more so still getting served?
Why didn't they ask me to leave if I was that rude and incapable?
I stood at a bar and ordered a drink in an appropriate manner. Didn't shout or demand. Just asked for what I wanted to drink when he approached me.
If it was purely about intoxication why did he refuse to serve me soft drinks also?
Could it not be beyond the realms of possiblity that he was just being an asshole?

OP posts:
isabellerossignol · 10/12/2019 18:09

I had a similarly strange experience many years ago. Was with a huge group of colleagues, and I was tapped on the shoulder and asked to leave the club for being too drunk. Apparently I was so drunk I couldn't stand up. Which was weird, because I was standing up perfectly OK, unlike the colleague who was only semi conscious and slumped in a seat, and the two who were so drunk they were having a fist fight. Bar staff and bouncers do sometimes take a real dislike to someone for no apparent reason. I actually complained to the place because they made me leave without my purse or phone, wouldn't let me stand near the safety of the entrance and wouldn't go in and alert one of my friends. But it was pointless because they just said I had been removed for being aggressive, but I was too terrified to be aggressive.

Nicknacky · 10/12/2019 18:13

If you were standing quite normally at a bar, not drunk etc then it would be completely bizarre that a barman would refuse to serve you.

I think you were more obnoxious/drunk than you think you were.

BoneyBackJefferson · 10/12/2019 18:13

Don’t leave it too long so he remembers your face

He will have already forgotten the OP.

As for going back,
If you managed to go on his shift
If he did remember her
and she played this card
He would still be in his rights to refuse to serve her if he though that she was out to get him.

BoneyBackJefferson · 10/12/2019 18:19

norkins
Could it not be beyond the realm of possibility that he was just being an asshole?

It is not beyond the realm of possibility.

But then it is not beyond the realm of possibility that you were an "arsehole".

It is also not beyond the realm of possibility that someone in your party thought that it would be fun to tell the barman not to serve you.

pelirocco123 · 10/12/2019 18:20

They dont have to sell you a drink , just the same as a shop can refuse to serve you for any reason you like
Why didnt you just move on to another bar

Thedeadwood · 10/12/2019 18:24

You complained. They’ve said the Barman is being disciplined. What else are you looking for here???!!

Hilda44 · 10/12/2019 18:38

This happened to me once years ago in London, I was stopped going in for being drunk (we hadn't even started drinking). It was quite funny when all the people with me which was about 30 all left to and we went to the pub opposite.

countdowntochristmas · 10/12/2019 18:45

I can believe it , occasionally bar staff bouncers can be arses . You say you weren't rude but he may have found you rude for whatever reason and took exception. I don't think you can prove or say it's because you were a woman though .
Vote with your feet and don't go back but let it go .

Fraggling · 10/12/2019 19:04

'Nobody cuts people off for fun, trust me'

What in the whole world, ever? :D

Me and my friend went into a pub once, no drinks at all yet, she asked for money for the cigarette machine, they threw us out!

Thefaceofboe · 10/12/2019 19:28

Why’s everyone on this thread acting like someone’s not allowed to get drunk?! Limiting them to a few drinks Hmm

Thestaffarealwayswrong · 10/12/2019 19:29

The barman may have been told by another member of staff not to serve someone who resembled you - I've seen this happen in action, and sorry but most people do get shitty with the staff when refused for any reason at all.
They can be the most reasonable person in the world, but refuse to serve them and it's like the sky has fallen in. The entitled attitude towards alcohol is disgusting in some people, it really is, especially considering they don't carry any of the concequences of an illegal sale, that's all for the person serving (unless it's a proxy sale, but the server rather than the buyer is more likely to get done, and more harshly)

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that he just 'took against you" no, but if he was serving other women then I don't see how you can feel it's because you're a woman.

I've been on the recieving end of complaints that are unfounded, because a customer couldn't get their alcohol, the trump card is "Well she was rude"

Of course he may have form for this and if he does, and if he was genuinely rude, then a disciplinary is what needs to happen.

However having been in the industry a long time, I'd be more inclined to think that you were refused alcohol service and took offence, which you displayed, which led him to refuse all service. Then you say he's rude.
If he'd served you and it turned out he was right not to, he gets a roasting. Lose lose for the bar man either way isn't it. Dare say his version of events differs to yours, but of course yours will be believed because you're the customer.
In general it boils down to the fact people don't like being told no by those who are serving them. Well unfortunately the law charges those people with upholding the rules it's made, with harsh penalties if they don't.

Thestaffarealwayswrong · 10/12/2019 19:31

Why’s everyone on this thread acting like someone’s not allowed to get drunk?!

Because it's illegal to serve someone already drunk.

norkins · 10/12/2019 19:39

I'm not entitled
It wasn't really not getting more alcohol. It was the unfairness, the injustice and the unreasonableness of the decision and his behaviour.
I was singled out and to be honest it hurt my feelings. I've been on the receiving of bullying men and it felt like this to be honest.
He didn't refuse or be rude to, the very drunk and much bigger men did he?

OP posts:
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