Can I ask for my money back?

[HereForTheHelp]

Think this is a bit awkward and I'm not sure about the logistics of how it might effect someone who is self-employed, so here goes!

I've been using a cleaner since February, she runs a small business and employs a few other people. The arrangement was she'd come every two weeks and I pay her upfront on the last working day of the month (so always pay her before the cleaning takes place)

On August 30th I paid £170 for our two usual cleans and between one thing and another, she hasn't been able to come. I've had to cancel twice because of sickness or work emergencies, but always let her know 24 hours in advance.
She's cancelled on me four times, usually an hour or two after the time she was supposed to arrive. I didn't mind too much, she had family sickness problems and it was unavoidable for her.

Anyway, after the last re-arrangement she said she'd get back to me with the next dates she could do ASAP and it never happened.

My ask is, can I ask for the money back and just say we'll re-start the schedule back up in mid-January time when she has room in her diary?
It's rather a lot of money to have 'banked' just before Christmas and in all honesty, it'd come in very handy! Not sure if this is the done thing though? Will it hurt the financial side of her business because that's the last thing I would want!

You need to write a fb review (if she has a business page) and rate her a low star... she will soon get back to you then!

I don't really want to do a FB review, I honestly think it could turn quite nasty.
I'm still waiting though. How long would you expect to wait for a refund?

Op cop on now. Stop being her friend. Her kids ailments are none of your concern. Message her that there was no cancellation policy in place, and in any case you had given her more than 24 hours notice for each time you cancelled, yet she had not given you the same courtesy for the 8 times she has cancelled. Mention that she has now effectively stolen money from you. Do not accept 50%, tell her you want 100% of what she owes you or you will have no choice but to take her to the small claims court.

You shouldn't still be waiting for a refund. Please follow @Drum2018 's advice. There was no cancellation policy in place.
Also now is a time to mention small claims court.
You can lodge a claim online now I think. You have done nothing wrong here and that is your money. You are being taken advantage of and it's not on. If she is doing this to you, I can bet she's doing it to others too.

Definitely use the example letter given up thread and list all the dates and cancellations really clearly, including how much notice was given and by whom. When she sees it written down like that she'll realise she doesn't have a leg to stand on.

I think you have to give a certain notice to claim through the small claims court as judges like to see you've given them a chance to pay up. So to speed it up, give that in your letter, saying if I haven't received this by [date] I'll will have no choice but seek to claim this through the small claims court.

I've asked for a time frame for refund. I think there's some crossover on here, there has been a time I've not given 24 hours notice for cancellation just because I genuinely thought that'd be fine because she always left it so last minute herself! Do you think that's why she's not giving me a full refund for the deep clean? Because that's the one I didn't give 24 hours on?

She's refunding next weeks clean in full. I actually asked for that to be refunded before Christmas and she refused, she must have realised that that was just wrong and there was no reason for it

You don't have a contract and there is no cancellation policy.

So you could argue that she had set a precedent by cancelling at such sort notice and often after her expected arrival on 8 occasions - and as such (and in the absence of a cancellation policy), you were to infer that this was the norm and you are not held by any cancellation time frame.

I think it's important to state specifically how many times she cancelled on you.

Also, don't ask her how long you should have to expect to wait for your refund. Because this just puts the ball in her court.

It would be reasonable to expect a full refund within 24hours of your request. If she's not done that you need to be clear. 'I expect a full refund of £xxx within 7 days/by the end of the week' be clear and stick to point.

I find it unbelievable that she's doing this to you, just awful.

I’m outraged for you @HereForTheHelp 🤬 Please don’t take this lying down, this is how chancers like her get away with it. Guaranteed that you won’t be the only person she’s done this to. Trading Standards may even be interested but without a contract it will obviously be harder to prove things. Texts will help.

I have never heard of a cleaner being paid in advance! Next time, pay after they clean! And don't let her get away with it, she trying to do one on you so don't let her get away with it. She isn't being nice to you so why are you so determined to be nice to HER?!!!

So she's said my refund will be with me by no later than tomorrow evening, I am annoyed because it's been a week since she cancelled and I asked for a refund for that straight away. She said she'd do it 'ASAP' on Saturday, so still over 3 days

I honestly can't figure out why I feel scared of her??? I'm not like this usually!! I can argue with the best of them! I genuinely feel sick confronting her though.
Even though I KNOW I'm in the right and even though I know I could have cancelled 5 minutes before she arrived and still ask for my money back, given the amount and time frame she cancelled on me, I still feel like I'm in the wrong.

It's so much money and we just haven't had the job done. I presume she doesn't have it, which is why she's delaying but she's a proper business not just a single cleaner? I can't even pinpoint why I feel so bloody guilty!

£55 for a two hour clean is very very expensive for a cleaner - would expect £30 and I live in London.

You’re doing the right thing OP stay strong!

If you paid by PayPal you can open a claim through them for goods/services not received. They'll ask for any evidence you have (messages). It can take a while but you should get your money back this way.

Either that or small claims court.

You really aren't in the wrong, and I think it's awful that she has made you feel scared of her.

She cannot be a proper business if she doesn't turn up/cancels after her expected time, has no contracts, no terms and conditions, no cancellation policy, accepts payments via PayPal friends and family and expects you to pay in advance for cleaning services.

She either doesn't have the money or doesn't want to refund you in my opinion. In PayPal, you login, go to the specific transaction and press 'refund'. If she's taking payments in advance - she should have the money.

Stick to your guns and look back through this thread - everybody is saying that she is in the wrong. And she really is. You have got this

If it helps you to toughen up, this woman is taking this money from your children.
It's there to make your family's lives easier, not finance whatever drama is going on in her life.

She's got no contract, no cancellation policy, more fool her. The flexibility worked well enough for her when it was all in her favour! Stick to your guns OP!

I do agree though, I don't think she's got the cash to give you.

So last night I sent a message to her saying,
'It's actually been over a week since you cancelled and I requested a refund, can you send the money now please'

She's ignored me, not even opened it. She's been online, posting and all sorts. I'll be really surprised if the refund comes in by this evening. She didn't even acknowledge my response to her saying I'd 'cost' her £400 or whatever. My response said she'd obviously also cost us money the 7 times she cancelled and I presumed the cancellation 'policy' was the precedent she'd already set.

Got blanked, looks like I'm still getting 50% back and the full amount for next weeks clean. That should come to £120...I guess £120 out of £170 isn't too horrendous. Just bloody annoyed at myself for letting it go on this long!

Do you know where she lives? Go knock round and speak to her?

OP, if you’re not willing to take any further action whatsoever then for the sake of your own sanity let it go - she’s clearly demonstrated that repeated requests from you are not enough to make her return the money. It’s getting a bit silly now - this person has effectively stolen from your child’s DLA and you’re hand wringing about leaving them a bad review on Facebook?

@PepsiLola I don't know where she lives but I wouldn't do that, that's not really fair.

She's just sent a message saying I'll receive it by tonight, god knows why it's taking so bloody long. I presume she doesn't have it or something. Or just deliberately delayed to be awkward

@EveWasShamed you're right, I know. Honestly I'm not like this usually at all! I deal with arsey people all day! It's just something about her mannerisms that genuinely unnerve me. Maybe it's irrational, but I think if I left her a bad review she'd just blow up and I'd get a mouthful of internet hate from all her followers.

If she doesn't refund me tonight then i will take it further through small claims court

Sorry if I sounded harsh - for what it’s worth I think you’ll have a lot more success with the threat of small claims than badmouthing her on social media. Good luck.

I agree with @EveWasShamed and don't think you sound harsh.

The only way you'll see a result is fb review or small claims.

Don't be nice to people who aren't nice to you

Why aren't you reclaiming via the PayPal resolution service OP?

Several of us have suggested that right back to you first posting, but seem to have been ignored. It's the most obvious way to get your money back

@RockinHippy because the OP paid via friends and family

@RockinHippy I paid through family and friends, it's basically a bank transaction. That's the way she told me to do it, I didn't think anything of it at the time. I can see the motivation behind it now!