Can I ask for my money back?

[HereForTheHelp]

Think this is a bit awkward and I'm not sure about the logistics of how it might effect someone who is self-employed, so here goes!

I've been using a cleaner since February, she runs a small business and employs a few other people. The arrangement was she'd come every two weeks and I pay her upfront on the last working day of the month (so always pay her before the cleaning takes place)

On August 30th I paid £170 for our two usual cleans and between one thing and another, she hasn't been able to come. I've had to cancel twice because of sickness or work emergencies, but always let her know 24 hours in advance.
She's cancelled on me four times, usually an hour or two after the time she was supposed to arrive. I didn't mind too much, she had family sickness problems and it was unavoidable for her.

Anyway, after the last re-arrangement she said she'd get back to me with the next dates she could do ASAP and it never happened.

My ask is, can I ask for the money back and just say we'll re-start the schedule back up in mid-January time when she has room in her diary?
It's rather a lot of money to have 'banked' just before Christmas and in all honesty, it'd come in very handy! Not sure if this is the done thing though? Will it hurt the financial side of her business because that's the last thing I would want!

Have you paid her for the 8 times she cancelled?

As per PP tell her if she doesn’t refund you’ll take her the the small claims court.

I’d post on her fb asking her just to respond to your enquiry. She may get the hint then and if doesn’t, post your grievance on her page. She’s running a business supposedly, this shouldn’t be happening.

@MyLamaDontLikeYou so how it worked was, I'd have cleans every two weeks. I'd have a deep clean on the fourth time she'd come and the other 3 would be surface cleans.

So some months it'd be 2 x £55.50 for the surface cleans and other months it'd be 1 x £55.50 and 1 x £130 for the deep clean. I'd pay her on my payday for the next months cleans if that makes sense?

So the 8 other times she cancelled, she'd just say she'd come the next day or a few days later or whatever and she usually would. One of the times I cancelled was because of her cancelling so much I was ending up with two cleans in a week which I didn't need!

I can't even explain how nervous I am of questioning her, is that ridiculous? My DH thinks it's because we're 'friendly' and it probably is, I know she's going through a rough patch so I feel guilty for asking for a refund

Oh Op you sound just like me! I would completely get myself into this situation and be out of pocket because I'm too scared to call out poor service. My DH would be going mad at me losing the money too...
I would start on the FB comment asking her to respond and take it from there. If you do end up posting on FB then be completely factual to ensure she can't accuse you of misrepresentation.
Good luck and pls let us know if you get your money back x

Dear xxx

I'm sorry that you are having a difficult personal time at time moment, I can completely empathise.
However, I feel,that our business arrangement has now completely broken down. I've looked back at my diary since March last year and can see that

Then list the dates of visits cancelled. By who. At what time. And the details of the rearranged visit
This will show how many visits were cancelled by you, how many by her, whether they were subsequently fulfilled and how many have been paid for but not fulfilled (clarifying those which you don't expect to be refunded due to lack of 24 hour cancellation notice on your part)?

Under the circumstances, i do not wish to continue with the arrangement and hereby give notice of cancellation.

Please process a refund of £130 for the deep clean not carried out on 13 Jan, plus the £60 prepaid for the visit next week. Please ensure this is returned to me within 5 working days.

then, if She doesn't pay within 5 days, contact her to say that you have no alternative but to commence a small claims appeal.

She is not your friend
She does not get to keep your hard earned money for doing fuck all
How many hours did you have to work to earn that money ?
I would go the small claims court route. Very short sighted of her IMHO

Ok, I understand what you mean now.

Try to remember - she's not your friend and her personal issues are not an excuse. Also remember she has cancelled on you and messed you around a lot, so she is clearly not sympathetic or respectful of your personal circumstances.

A reputable business does not take payment via 'friends and family' PayPal and a reputable business would have had a contract in place.

Also, if there is no contract in place - I'm not sure how can she hold your money for cancelling, because there are no cancellation terms!!

You need to be direct, keep to point and stick to your guns. Don’t get drawn in to her personal chat.

Something simple like:

'Hi there , For clarification, I am due £xxx (100%) for services I’ve paid for that have not been received. I would like a full refund by xxx otherwise I will have no option but to go through small claims’

(I’m sure somebody can come up with better, but you get the idea).

If she ignores you, comment on one of her FB posts to ask if she got your message.

You have no reason to feel nervous. You have done nothing wrong here.

Her private life is irrelevant, she is running a business and is not being professional. I couldn't run my business by constantly cancelling clients.

She is a cf.

Is the £55 2 hour clean done by one person or two?

I'd be commenting on her page for everyone to see, not rude just something along the lines of "not sure if you are getting my messages but I haven't received my refund yet" might make her reply

@gazelda that's a really good response. I'm going to do that now, I'm just so nervous!

@eurochick sometimes 1 person, sometimes 2. If it's 2 people they're only here for one hour though

You are being had. Most cleaners are around the £10-12 per hour mark. You are paying double that to your supposed friend!

She's saying the times I cancelled I lost her £400 because she couldn't fill those slots in time, is that right? She cancelled on me 8 times! Is potential loss of earnings the same as actual? Because I'd already paid 😭 I feel bloody awful about it but I haven't signed a contract and I've lost earnings as well, well, my DH has. Every time she's supposed to come we've vacated the house and he works from home so has blocked off 3-4 hours at a time. I'm desperate to say that as her message was really snotty, but I won't (cos I'm too scared!)

@eurochick she's not a friend! Just gotten to know her personal problems quite a lot as she always tells me why she's cancelling

Keep to the facts.
If you booked her to do a 2 hour clean at £20 per hour, and cancelled with less than 24 hours notice, then she can claim she's lost £40 which you owe her. No more.
If she cancelled an appointment, but you then agreed for her to fit it in a couple of days later, then she owes you nothing. If she hasn't fulfilled that appointment, then she owes you the money you've pre-paid.

It should be a very clear transactional record. Nothing extra for loss of earnings over and above what was agreed between the two of you
.

She's a pee taker. You don't have a contract with her, so she hasn't stipulated cancellation fees, so she doesn't have a leg to stand on in keeping your money. Sounds you gave reasonable notice anyway. My dentists doesn't expect more.

Can you reclaim via PayPal? Open a dispute

Otherwise I agree, small claims court with one last email (paper trail) laying out your plans & a final refund request

Her set up sounds very flaky, I wouldn't be surprised if she's a tax dodger too

When you have cancelled, has she still been paid, or has she offered to fit you in at other times?

@hollowtalk she's offered to fit me in at other times, I kinda followed her example because the first time I had to re-arrange was after she'd cancelled on me 4 times so I genuinely thought it was a non-issue but still tried to give her plenty of notice.

I feel so annoyed with myself, I felt awful asking for money back because I knew I'd cancelled before but looking back through my diary has genuinely shocked me. I didn't realise she'd moved us around SO much. Often it was consecutive as well, as in, she'd cancel, offer to come the next day, then cancel again!

She's not a friend. A friend wouldn't treat you like this. You are using money for your disabled children to get your house cleaned and she has kept the money and hasn't cleaned your house. She has let you down so many times.

I would send her a text saying you would like the money back and you won't be going ahead with cleaning. I think I'd say in the text that it's your children's DLA and she needs to return it.

In future I wouldn't pay until the job's done - I know you meant well but it really has backfired and I can see it happening again with other people, too.

You said you paid by PayPal - was this friend and family or goods and services?

If friends and family, report her to Paypal for avoiding fees and ask if they can help.

If goods and services, ask PayPal for a refund.

Otherwise do the small claims court. She has been fleecing you with her charges, you really should get the full amount back.

She wouldn't ever book anyone in if they didn't pay first 😩 she's said she's going to refund me for next weeks clean but she's staying at 50% for the one she let me down on last week (the deep clean)
She said she'll send me a message when she's done the refund but I don't get why it's not instant? I always paid her instantly as she wanted it that way! She said yesterday that she'd refund me and I was waiting all day. It's been 4 hours since she said she'd do it, has she deliberately not given me a timeline? I'm getting so annoyed now

She doesn't get to decide, though. She has your money and you don't want her to do the cleaning any more.

Can you get your husband to deal with it if you struggle with being firm enough? If I were him I'd mention bad reviews and the small claims court. She's not a friend and it doesn't matter if she never speaks to you again - that would be a great result, actually.