I need help with my 3yr old

[Shookethtothecore]

My second son, middle child is as cute as a button, full of energy and very very funny. But I am at my whits end with him and I’m scared of the future to be honest.
I realise he’s only 3, but I’ve never met a 3yr old like it.
He’s always been hard work, he didn’t sleep through till he was 2.5, would just get up to play all hours, didn’t want anything, just didn’t need to sleep, he sleeps now but even now he still has the odd random bad night.
Feeding him was always hard as I couldn’t get him to sit in a high chair, or at the table, as soon as he got mobile. He would scream and throw plates untill he was let out. He will only eat what he wants to eat, I tried every trick in the book, even offered him the same meal for breakfast, lunch and dinner (I made fresh) no snacks, water to drink, until he would eat- he went 3 days of refusing until I worried about the lack of food and caved. He is head strong beyond anything I have ever seen. He is also speech delayed, but is making good progress with speech therapy.
He is a million miles an hour, never sits still- terrifies me because he will run off and if you about stop or come back he doesn’t listen at all, he just keeps running- we are currently using reins on the school run because I have a newborn and not enough hands to grab him quickly and he just bolted the other day and o was hysterically shouting for him to stop whilst running down the street and I thank god for the lollipop lady stopping him. He just laughs.
He does not care about any boundaries- naughty step, shouting, calmly explaining, honestly I feel like I’ve tried everything but if he isn’t happy with something he just screams and shouts and says no. He hits me, kicks me, bites me if I discipline him and he shows absolutely no remorse. I think that’s the bit I am most concerned about, the no remorse at all. He just doesn’t care about consequences or even if he’s upset people.
He is a different kid if he has your attention one to one, but he needs constant stimulation. He has always been like this, his attention span is very short.
School tell me he is popular (I’m not surprised he is loads of fun) but now he has settled in (school nursery) he’s becoming a bit of a handful. He isn’t afraid of anything. He will climb, jump, run give anything a go. I love that about him but my god it’s terrifying.
Today’s example- we had a good mornjng, baby slept and we played and went to a cafe for lunch- I kept his focus and he ate (chips and nuggets but that’s a battle for another day) went to school fine. Picked him and it began.
He ran straight past me, out the cloak room and into the street, I run after him telling him he needs to get his coat on, he keeps running. I catch him and bring him back. Put his coat on- he lies in the floor. Not crying or anything, but he won’t move. The teacher comes out and says she wants to see him walk nicely, he just says nope. To cut a long story short it took three teachers to move him. He just says no, and if you try to pick him up thrashed about (laughing) so it was very difficult to keep a hold of him. It’s the total lack of respect?! I guess that’s the wrong word but reaction to anyone telling him to behave.
That’s one example as I’m conscious this is long, I can explain further if people want more info. I feel like I’m failing him, he’s so clever and funny and I love him so much but if he keeps kicking off the way he does then I worry about what on Earth we will do when he’s older. He already kicks lumps out of his older brother and me

I have limited advice as I am in an almost identical scenario so I am keen to hear what others will say. Keep going. We got this.

Oh my god I am not alone. Thank you,
I will try anything, we can go in like this- every day is a battle for basic things. We do have this, but I need it to get better now x

His older brother is the exact opposite. I literally have to say “that was rude/naughty/cheeky” and he’s beside himself apologising. He’s never in trouble really, but naturally the middle son is cleverer than him, like a problem solver, he sees everything as a challenge for him to win

Please can I ask what his diet is like? Does he eat at nursery? My son had an eating issue due to recurring tonsillitis ( every week he had an infection ) and adenoids so big that it had completely blocked his nose drainage and wouldn’t eat at all at nursery and very very restricted diet at home. Behaviour was out of control and a lot of it was to do with being hungry. Once he had his tonsils and adenoids out and he started eating, his behaviour improved massively. Does he have any hearing issue?.

I believe he has a hearing issue, the problem is, depending on his mood he fudges up the test on purpose. He failed one hearing test- I explained that he can hear a crisp packet open in the next room so wanted him tested again. She did the thing where they make a noise and see his reaction to look where the sound was coming from- he have no reaction at all, she even tapped him on the shoulder and he didn’t react. He just wasn’t in the mood to do it so he didn’t. He was 2. Retested a few week later and passed it with flying colours.
His diet is better- but still more on the beige side than I would like, but it’s ok: he would eat sugar all day long if I let him, but he is improving. He won’t eat at a table tho, he will just throw the plate. He eats it, wanders for a bit, takes a bite, wanders for a bit, carries it round and eats- drives me mad but I can’t get him to sit still. He has fruit and milk in school

The tonsil thing is interesting as I questioned it and was told they are large but not excessively

I think diet could be an issue, particularly for a child like him . You say he doesn't have an excessive amount of sugar, but at 3 he doesn't need any at all other than what occurs naturally in fruit. Processed food like nuggets contains additional sugar- check the labels. Don't give him sugar/ biscuits/ cakes . You'll suffer while he gets used to it, but easier to do it now than when he's older.
It also doesn't sound as if he's getting enough sleep, and for some kids being tired makes them hyper .
I know it's hard with a baby as well, but doing things like going to a cafe is setting yourselves up to fail. Too much sitting around for a lot of 3 year olds, with the pressure on to behave quietly. You'd be better doing a picnic after letting off steam in the park. Or lunch at home after park/ woods .
My children Were fairly placid on the whole, but taking them out to eat was a nightmare until they were 5 or 6.

Op my dd was also like this to a degree.

He can hear a crisp packet open in the next room 😂😂😂

I don't know what to suggest except my eldest is as diplomatic, smooth and easy going as the youngest is v stubborn. When younger trying to correct her speech '' I.... Can... Say.... Whatever.... I....... Want..... ''

Also wouldn't be strapped in anywhere! Tricky eater. Stubborn.

She does what she wants!!
Even leaving the house has had to be her way... Opening the door which door, how etc.

Next door had similar age child (2 months different) sometimes I'd see them eating outside, very calmly, so civilised.
The child carefully and slowly eating.

With us dd was on a lap, reaching, moving, knocking, grabbing... Crying.

It's been a fucking frantic few years it really has.

I couldn't leave this and not reply as I'm in the exact same situation with my 3 year old. Even down to having to use reigns on the school run as I have my 18 month old in the pram and I just can't trust him not to run off. When he started nursery the teacher could hardly cope with him as he just didn't understand or care about consequence. I was at my wits end worrying that he was going to be expelled from nursery. He still will only eat around 5 foods and like your son will starve rather than eat something he doesn't want.
Have you spoken to your health visitor about it? Mine noticed a number of problems at the two year check including a speech delay. He was referred for many appointments and was diagnosed with global developmental delay. We now finally have an appointment for autism assessment coming up. He is a wonderful little boy when he is engaged and has your full attention doing what he wants to do but if that's not the case he is very difficult. He gets violent, hitting and growling at me and terrorising his sister. It's hard and I wish I had some advice to offer you (if you find the answer please message me with it!).
Anyway, I would contact your health visitor. There is every chance your son is fine but if there is something underlying the waiting lists are so long. It's worth discovering it or getting it ruled out as young as possible.

My DD was similar in quite a few of the areas you've listed. The running off was a particularly problem. Reins were a lifesaver but at places like the park she would suddenly run out if anyone opened the gate and just keep going. No looking back, no fear, no understanding of the danger and no remorse.

She is older now and has an ADHD diagnosis. She also has ASD traits.
It can just be an age thing and things will naturally improve as they get older, but sometimes there can be more to it.

Try looking up ODD (operational defiance disorder)

Thank you everyone. @Mizzeldrizzle has it improved at all?
I have seen the health visitor, pead- who referred to ent- who referred us to speech. When the baby was born, he was here for the health visitor visit and he dominated it, he was climbing all over her, when she was talking to me he was moving her face so she would look at him, she was smiling, and he was lapping it up and doing it more. She asked about him and pushed harder on the speech as she felt it was a speech issue as he just wanted to be involved. I’m concerned about the lack of boundaries he has. He litterally met that lady 3 mins before and was climbing her like a jungle Jim. But she didn’t seem bothered by that at all.
He passed the assessments the HV do. Except the speech side of it, the pead didn’t think there was any concern apart from speech but maybe we try again, because he hasn’t improved behaviour wise.
I was wondering how long it took for someone to mention adhd or add, I’m not drip feeding but my husband has adhd, there is a hereditary link aparently but no one is interested in a diagnosis until he’s older. I just want to know how you parent a child like that, I’m not arsed about what it’s called, just how I help him- the medical professionals ive seen seem to tell me he’s too young to diagnose, but don’t understand I don’t necessarily need a diagnosis just some pointers on how you parent a child like him. Books? Podcasts there must be something?!

Havnt had a coffee yet excuse the ramblings will be more coherent later

@notthemum oh wow ODD is very interesting, and can be helped with different strategies which gives me hope

My now 5 yo was EXACTLY like this. Aged me 10 years I swear. Now diagnosed with Aspegers and potentially adhd. To give you some hope he's SO much calmer now. We read dozens of books and completely changed our parenting style. For eg I now use motivation and extinction with him. Which basically means bribing or ignoring. I never would have done bribes (well not much) with my eldest as I could persuade and reason with him because he cared if he made me sad whereas the younger one didn't care at all so chocolate buttons it is! The fact he's diagnosed means we're applying for an EHCP and he has one to one care for part of the day at school and is under senco support. It's been an exhausting few years but I finally feel like we're on an even keel again so don't give up hope.

@TipseyTorvey thank you that is so hopeful, and I’m glad things have got better,
Do you have any recommendations for books or something where I can learn about those techniques?

My DD has ASD and has her ADHD assessment soon. She was this child.

Make clear how you expect him to behave before the behaviour happens(he might not know instinctively that something is socially inappropriate), praising good behaviour, look at his diet, natural consequences (punishment never worked for us - she didn't understand it). Colour Monster book for helping him recognise and eventually regulate his emotions. I'll come back if I think of any more.

Sorry when I say praise the good, I really mean ignore (if its safe) the bad behaviour

@absoliteunit I think we tell him off too much, my husband in particular and I’m trying to explain to him it’s not making a difference except we are all miserable. I will look at that monster thing. I feel like I need to physically show dh what we need to do as the way he thinks is at odds to how we parent him, he’s doing his best don’t get me wrong, but because it’s different to our first he is struggling

My 4 year old nephew has engaged in much of the behaviour you have described and has recently been diagnosed with ADHD.
Perhaps you could approach your GP / HV to ask for a paediatric referral to explore your concerns?

He does like to be a “good boy” I can see it in him, he just can’t seem to control is compulsions that get him into trouble. For example- our house is like a big loop, you can run through it in a full circle
Yesterday he ate his yoghurt at the table well. But he ate it with his fists so you can imagine the mess. He tells me he has dirty hands and I go and get a cloth- I walk towards him with the cloth saying good boy for eating you yoghurt, let me clean your hands- with that, he jumps up and runs round- yoghurt flying everywhere- I tell him calmly, no, your messy come back let me clean you but he’s gone, giggling like a fool- shouting dirty hands and slapping the walls, I can’t catch him if I go one way he goes another. I end up shouting at him, his brother blocks one way for me to trap him so I can catch him, why?! Why does he do this? When he was in the moment he just isn’t “there” with me. He doesn’t care about the consequences he just laughs like a drain

This was my son and he has ASD. I would definitely recommend going back to see a developmental paediatrician, for assessment to see if he has any underlying difficulties that cause the behaviour. My son was totally exhausting and we could not take our eyes off him for a second.

My son was extremely active, lovable but always on the go. I immediately recognised the thing where they lie down and go heavy and sort of flopsy deliberately, mine used to do it in the supermarket ... I used to call it flumping. However, he was a good eater and reasonable sleeper ... but we never had a biscuit, fizzy drink in the house because any sugar would just send him ... DH giving a blue lollipop before travelling on plane was something he lived to regret as I said, as he had given him a sugary chemical-laden thing, he could sit with son ... revenge is sweet.

Can I suggest that you involve him in sporting activities, the rugby clubs usually have some v delightful Sat morning running about or there's toddler tennis, swimming ... and as many as poss. This is what we did though of course it is a lot of running around for you and the expense ... and we were also able to do some of the same activities (swimming and tennis for daughter).

Adhd is where my money is- but no one is interested in diagnosis at this age? I feel like if we had one we could help him. Did your sister go private?

Try looking up ODD (operational defiance disorder)

*Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Based on professional experience, ADHD came to mind based on your description, but there is a high incidence of overlap with ADHD and ODD. However, certainly in my area they don't accept referrals for ADHD assessment before age 6 as it's too early to diagnose before this age.

It would definitely be worth trying some ODD strategies such as presenting requests for him to do things differently instead of just asking directly e.g. making it a challenge - 'I bet you can't get your coat on before me!', and offering choices within a range you're happy with to help him feel in control e.g. 'do you want to have your bath at 6 or 6:30 tonight?'
ADDitude Mag is great website with loads of articles about a range of neurodiversity e.g. www.additudemag.com/slideshows/how-to-deal-with-a-child-with-odd-and-adhd/