I need help with my 3yr old

[Shookethtothecore]

My second son, middle child is as cute as a button, full of energy and very very funny. But I am at my whits end with him and I’m scared of the future to be honest.
I realise he’s only 3, but I’ve never met a 3yr old like it.
He’s always been hard work, he didn’t sleep through till he was 2.5, would just get up to play all hours, didn’t want anything, just didn’t need to sleep, he sleeps now but even now he still has the odd random bad night.
Feeding him was always hard as I couldn’t get him to sit in a high chair, or at the table, as soon as he got mobile. He would scream and throw plates untill he was let out. He will only eat what he wants to eat, I tried every trick in the book, even offered him the same meal for breakfast, lunch and dinner (I made fresh) no snacks, water to drink, until he would eat- he went 3 days of refusing until I worried about the lack of food and caved. He is head strong beyond anything I have ever seen. He is also speech delayed, but is making good progress with speech therapy.
He is a million miles an hour, never sits still- terrifies me because he will run off and if you about stop or come back he doesn’t listen at all, he just keeps running- we are currently using reins on the school run because I have a newborn and not enough hands to grab him quickly and he just bolted the other day and o was hysterically shouting for him to stop whilst running down the street and I thank god for the lollipop lady stopping him. He just laughs.
He does not care about any boundaries- naughty step, shouting, calmly explaining, honestly I feel like I’ve tried everything but if he isn’t happy with something he just screams and shouts and says no. He hits me, kicks me, bites me if I discipline him and he shows absolutely no remorse. I think that’s the bit I am most concerned about, the no remorse at all. He just doesn’t care about consequences or even if he’s upset people.
He is a different kid if he has your attention one to one, but he needs constant stimulation. He has always been like this, his attention span is very short.
School tell me he is popular (I’m not surprised he is loads of fun) but now he has settled in (school nursery) he’s becoming a bit of a handful. He isn’t afraid of anything. He will climb, jump, run give anything a go. I love that about him but my god it’s terrifying.
Today’s example- we had a good mornjng, baby slept and we played and went to a cafe for lunch- I kept his focus and he ate (chips and nuggets but that’s a battle for another day) went to school fine. Picked him and it began.
He ran straight past me, out the cloak room and into the street, I run after him telling him he needs to get his coat on, he keeps running. I catch him and bring him back. Put his coat on- he lies in the floor. Not crying or anything, but he won’t move. The teacher comes out and says she wants to see him walk nicely, he just says nope. To cut a long story short it took three teachers to move him. He just says no, and if you try to pick him up thrashed about (laughing) so it was very difficult to keep a hold of him. It’s the total lack of respect?! I guess that’s the wrong word but reaction to anyone telling him to behave.
That’s one example as I’m conscious this is long, I can explain further if people want more info. I feel like I’m failing him, he’s so clever and funny and I love him so much but if he keeps kicking off the way he does then I worry about what on Earth we will do when he’s older. He already kicks lumps out of his older brother and me

He plays football and is very good at it, the sugar thing I felt we were doing our best- we can be better tho I will try harder, i will do anything of it will help. I need to get extended family on board

@ThePurpleMoose thank you. I will read this link. Thank you all of you you have made me quite emotional. I was half expecting people to tell me I’m a shit mum for his behaviour.
I would move mountains for him, I just don’t know what ones to move

My concern with the diagnosis at 6 thing, is that it will be too late to change some of the behaviour? But is that not the case then? It mustn’t be if it’s standard practice?

I’m incredibly keen to not have him medicated, this is my big thing. I really want to help him understand himself and cope better rather than pumping pills into him. It’s my worry that by 6 I will be pressured down this avenue

Shook we got a private diagnosis after the nursery suggested his behaviour wasn't just naughtiness. The council came to assess him and the senco at nursery wrote loads of reports but the waiting list was 2 years long. We felt that was too long as we knew he'd need extra support at school so we went private. It's not cheap but we went to one that cahms would recognise the diagnosis from. Also to be fair to your husband we also went down the route of getting stricter and more shouty at first. We just thought he needed a firmer hand, I feel sick now knowing how distressed he was and how much worse we made it but once we knew it wasn't naughtiness we banned shouting and just leave (when safe). There is also no point wheeling or cajoling with mine. I'll dig out the books later and send a list. Some aren't for everyone though.

Thank you, I will look at private diagnosis. Dh is an amazing father I’m not knocking him I’ve done the same it’s natural but it just isn’t working and I’m at the end of my rope with it all. We need to try something else now, conventional parenting techniques are just not working.
Thank you, you have given me hope and I cannot explain what that means to me, I just need a direction to go in

My son is similar, we saw a paediatrician who told us he is showing a lot of autistic traits but not quite enough to warrant a diagnosis at this stage. The senco I work with tells me that she often finds the kids don’t get proper diagnosis for years when it’s clear to everyone else the child has some kind of SN.

We have found lots of exercise and being able to run free in the garden/park really help. Lots of sleep and a good diet. Avoiding too much stimulation also helps.

Yes to the stimulations. That makes a huge difference. I’m going to work on his diet, that is something I can start now. It will be hell, I think it would be easier detoxing a crack addict but if it helps we have to do it

Yes OP it's very easy to get into a bit of a viscous cycle with the telling off. I think by ignoring some of the minor things while simultaneously praising the good when you do have to shout they learn you really mean it and they need to stop now, like when something is dangerous or something.

The trouble with diagnosing ADHD early is that many children are impulsive and hyperactive at that age and don't necessarily have ADHD. It can't hurt to use some of the strategies before diagnosis though. Our local area have some parenting classes for parents of children with additional needs - you don't need a diagnosis to go - it might be worth asking your HV if there is anything local to you? They have really helped me. Plus you get to meet other parents in the same boat which has helped a lot - I was always worried about playdates in case DD went into one, whereas these parents are a bit more understanding

*viscious

Don’t knock yourself down honestly. You are doing a great job. For two years my son had 5 foods which were fed to him on a rotation. All beige. No fruits and no vegs at all. We were under the care of a dietician but we were advised to feed what he can manage to eat as when he would get a bout of infection all eating will cease. We couldn’t take him anywhere. He was out of control. Behaviour was very stressful and the running was bloody hell. Anyway after his op, his diet changed a lot. He eats very well now and his behaviour has improved so so much. He listens, he holds hands to walk, he doesn’t run off etc. I believe it’s all to do with his nutrition. Also I took him out one to one by myself a lot. Every single Saturday for a whole year, I took him out just him and me. We went to a lot of places and I think it helped a lot. I have another child and I am lucky in the sense that she was only a baby so the huge amount of time spent on him didn’t affect her.

Anyone who hasn't already looked, please look up ODD.
You will have to argue your case with the doctor as many won't acknowledge this. I have looked after many children over the years with many different diagnosis and have a special needs qualification but I had never heard of this until my daughter pointed it out to me early this year.
Take heart ladies (and OHs) It is bloody hard work but
You are all doing a fantastic job and you are fighting for your children which is the best thing you can do.
💐 For all.
Best wishes

My concern with the diagnosis at 6 thing, is that it will be too late to change some of the behaviour? But is that not the case then? It mustn’t be if it’s standard practice?

The thing is, you don't need a diagnosis to implement strategies to help him change his behaviour. You just need to look at what he finds difficult and try to adapt his environment or the way you deal with situations to make things easier for him.

I think you said earlier that he seems to want to be good - so it's unlikely that a lot of his behaviour is a conscious choice but rather he literally can't help himself, so he needs the help of those around him.

It’s exactly that @Thepurplemoose, but I need to find the framework of what works for him, and that’s what I’m struggling with. I think I will look at adhd parenting and start there, as I feel it is most like his behaviour. @notthemum the one to one is interesting. I give as much as I can but I am fully stretched, my parents however, have him overnight once a week. He absolutely idolises them and is much more manageable for them. My mum and dad will sit and play with him for hours, he gets their full attention and my dad does diy with him and let’s him hammer stuff and he just relishes in it. I admit, in my worse moments I felt he would do better living with them, he would be so much better as an only child but it just is what it is. He needs that level of attention.
This morning has been better, calmer. I will need pointers in the food. I am rushing for the school run so will be back in a bit

Could it be that he had ASD?
The issues around food can be sensory?
He may be struggling with sleep because his brain doesn’t produce enough dopamine.
The bad behaviour could just be an expression of anxiety.
Take him back for an assessment for ASD I wouldn’t be surprised at all if this is what’s going on for him.

@Absoluteunit I will look for those classes thank you.
So so far, I have given him clear timeframes- eg I will get your sister dressed then in 5 mins you. Given him tonnes of praise and he has been loads better he was saying “I’m a good boy” to me and doing high fives. Then the school run:
We walk with 2 other families, instantly he starts playing up, trying to run in different directions, climbing on the pram wheels when they are moving, refusing to move, hitting me. Another mum takes the pram for me so I focus on him: he’s chaos. He is much worse if he’s got a crowd, maybe that’s the stimulation thing?!
I get back and ask him if he thinks he was a good boy waking and he said yes. I said no you must walk nicely and hold my hand it’s dangerous and he doesn’t respond. I was giving him the choice of whose hand to hold on the walk, he was just lost to the crazies and I couldn’t get through to him.
Food wise- he has had 2 brioche and a yoghurt for breakfast. This is a huge improvement from 6 months ago but I realise there is a lot of sugar in that, anyone have any tips? I’m a keen baker and so is my mum so we can make low auger things but we are going to have to dupe him for a while and wean him off. There is no hope telling me to give him toast or whatever and wait he will go days and starve, he just will I’ve tried it.

@absopugginglutely what is asd? Is that Aspergers? It sounds awful but there’s so much nowadays I get lost in it all. I just want to know how to begin to help him. How does asd present?

You could ask nursery if there's an Early Years SEN outreach team they can access for additional support - I often liaise with this team in my work and they have some people who specifically deal with children who are showing similar difficulties to those you describe, so you may have something similar locally. It's difficult though as services vary so much depending on where you live.

Also, have you discussed your concerns with your speech and language therapist? ADHD and ASC (Autism Spectrum Condition, formerly referred to as ASD -disorder rather than condition - this includes Asperger's which is no longer differentiated when making a diagnosis of autism) both involve communication difficulties so your SALT may be able to help or at least direct you to relevant services.

ASD ≠ Autism spectrum disorder.
I could talk forever on this subject / ADHD/ ODD and many of the others.
If anyone wants to I am happy for you to pm me I don't know how to do that as technology not my thing

Does the behaviour ramp up more during transitions? I notice you have mentioned it when meal time has finished, bed time and going from home to school... my son struggled with similar and we (eventually) made a visual time table for almost everything so he could see what was coming next. It really helps now and he's 9. We had egg timers (before he could tell the time) for how long he had to put his shoes on etc.

It has got easier for us in some ways because DS can now explain things eg "how do I know when you're getting cross?" because he cannot read facial expressions or tone of voice. So I now have to say, I'm getting cross now, or your behaviour is making me feel sad now. When I shout or hurt myself he laughs "because your face looks funny". This is why he seems to have no remorse; because HE thinks it's funny he doesn't understand others' viewpoint or feelings. (He has high functioning autism and dyspraxia).

Hope this helps a bit.

ASD ≠ Autism spectrum disorder

What does ASD = then, @notthemum ?

@purplemoose.
Really was there any need at all for the dig asking What ASD=then was ?
Also I am very well aware that ASD is now referred to as ASC.
I am also well aware that many parents still continue to use ASD and know of at least a few mothers who have told the social workers, family workers and portage worker's that to them it will always be ASD. It has disordered their lives and that of the family and extended families. I deeply apologize for my typo when in a rush for work, but did assume that people would realise that that was what it was and hopefully take my good intentions on board and not be so desperate to try this one upmanship nonsense which serves no useful purpose to anyone

Hello Shook, here are some of the books. Like a PP mentions transitions are key in our house. We got many many visual timers and we change NOTHING without saying 'In 5 mins, X will happen, when the bell goes it's time to X okay?' Not even moving from the sofa to the dining table. Leaving the house is the same. We can never just shout 'Kids, time to go'.

Thanks everyone. They are both asleep now.

This morning we did some drawring and he lasted about a min and a half, the he’s been playing with his toys. He’s playing is crashing into them and bashing them and throwing them but I’ve ignored it mainly.
At 10 he started to get naughtier so I took them for a drive at 10.30 and he fell asleep, they are both waking now slowly,
Sleep and diet does make a difference I agree but the diet is going to be very hard to crack

Thank you I’ve screen grabbed those books.
I am rushing as they are about to wake but the transition stage of the day is absolutely worse and the worst time of the day by miles is after school till bath. The over stimulation, need to eat, tiredness everything just rapidly desends into chaos