Ethnic cleansing again.

[LinnetBird]

I know I have a thread already in petitions, but wtf is the point in this.
It's just making more people homeless, that the council will have to house.
It won't save any money, it will cost a fortune.
Whilst we have a van it's considered as a home, so applying to the council you are on the list the same as everyone else.
Take the van away we are homeless if we don't have a house, too.

I wondered how long it would be, the most of Europe have been cleansing for a while, but of course if it doesn't affect the majority it's hardly reported until significant change like this.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/13/priti-patel-demonisation-gypsies-prejudice-bigotry?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR2pQc750NncYgayf_bl_OUHRDlYn7rEUCNHPLA1amCB2iIcfQ7cRvbEAhc

That angry, I forgot the link

LinnetBird
I read that today, too.
With hope that it's an electioneering stand.
Looking at any comment section of any newspaper where any travelling community is concerned, there's a fair amount of hate and the suggestion to impound vehicles and trailers is rife.
It would be hard to impose.
But it certainly is the thin end of the wedge (again) and generations have faced this.
Electioneering for the moment, but post a link to your petition.

It was a petition against racism, before this announcement.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/3733391-Not-racist-come-hither
A new nc too.

Thank you LinnetBird
Your patience is admirable and your posts and links will go a long way to making people understand.

It's not enough rosamacrose but thank you very much.
It saddens me and frustrates me, but as humans we do turn a blind eye to things we shouldn't.
I know occasionally I'll hear or read something and think wow I had no idea.
Maybe sometimes it takes an outsider with knowledge to push for change.
I'd love to see a peaceful demonstration somewhere in London, including horses of course

I read the article earlier and cried. This is just nasty and dehumanising and needs fighting. I'll read through the other thread too.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/844954/Unauthorised_Encampments_-_consultation_paper.pdf

Have you read the consultation proposal?

I hadn't seen this, what is the world coming to.
I have stumbled into this having recently found my DNA, not knowing my roots.
The research I have done has 1500 years at least of discrimination and racism against travellers.
The atrocities far outweigh any other people with the exception of the Jewish.
In this day and age in Britain we shouldn't be looking at ethnic cleansing, fascism and sheer discrimination.

Which part of the consultation do you have a problem with?

The fact they just want us to disappear into thin air.

They have changed the laws so many times, 1500 years of culture and tradition will be wiped out.

The campsites have halved, the common land fenced off, some of which our ancestors used for hundreds of years.

Now, stopping at the side of the road will be trespassing. The Police would be able to take our homes, just for stopping.

They aren't talking about people's private property that would be fair enough. There are enough laws to prosecute for this.

It's racism, fascism, not to mention discriminatory.
It reminds me very much of the poem, "They came for"

I so wish I could do more, but I'm working on it.
never being politically active I'm not sure where to start apart from lobbying government.

Isn't it already trespassing to live on land that isn't yours? Just in England and Wales it's a civil offense.

Yes, the problem arises when the goal posts keep changing on what is determined as private land. Laws changed to eradicate Romany and gypsy travellers.
This is nothing new, and has been happening throughout history.
It's really stepping up at the moment though, across the whole of Europe.
From 1960 onwards in England and Wales it has become so difficult for travellers to exist and keep their culture. Some of this culture over 1000 years old.
I'm hoping that this campaign will fall at several of the articles of Human Rights.

But there's nothing on the consultation about changing what is private land. It's about what the police can do to remove those who are already illegally trespassing, from what I can tell.

Anywhere a traveller would like to stay has been made illegal, apart from the remaining sites that are a proportion of the ones issued in 1960, which even back then was not enough.
Forced into social housing interfering with the way of life culture, social norms and belief system.
In 1994 increasing laws to stop travellers from stopping and fencing off existing land used.
Currently, trying to legislate to remove the homes of those who stop anywhere other than a designated camp where travellers fear for their lives.

But they would only have their vehicles seized if they're breaking the law. You can't just rock up to someone else's property and expect to live there.

I think you misunderstand.
It isn't talking about rocking up to people's property.
It' about not being able to park in a lay by, or side of the road. This is now trespassing. As is trying to park anywhere where parking has been permitted before.
It's fenced off, there are people with nowhere to go if this law goes through.
So the councils will have to house them, taking homes that others could have who need and want them.
Or they could build concentration camps to hold them all, you know like the Nazis did.
You can't just expect a whole ethnic minority to disappear into thin air, they have to live somewhere.

TurOlive

It's not just their vehicles it's their home.
Currently if travellers have a vehicle in which they can sleep it's considered a home.
They will be made homeless.
Will you offer a home?

The camping anywhere generally leads to a ton of mess left, though? Where does your waste water go? Where do you empty the chemical toilets?

The council has to go and clean up, with council tax payers footing the bill. Leaving crap everywhere isn’t a culture, and it isn’t ok.

If I want to go and camp somewhere with a caravan, I have to pay, and abide by the rules of the site. That’s nothing to do with my ethnicity it’s just obeying rules.

What @Bunnyfuller said 😐

Bunnyfuller

Over 1000 years history, says it doesn't generally anything.
That's just stereotyping.
I agree with you, leaving crap is terrible and people should be fined for doing it, whoever they are.
This is about the protection of human rights of an ethnic minority from racism. to allow safety in their homes.

It really isn't ethnic cleansing.

Nor is it racism, trying to pull an IDPOL oppression stack on this is not the right way to tackle it. There is a reason why situations like this has bubbled up to the top tier of politics and it is nothing to do with racism nor ethnic cleansing.

A lot of labour strongholds are in favour of these measures so it isn't even a right v left issue, for an anecdote where my parents live in decades old strong labour constituent have just had to clear a local park yet again after travelers rocked up and left it in a shit tip, even had to put up concrete blocks to stop future encroachment, it's empty platitudes to just think you can hand out fines to people who are off grid.

Fine them for the mess?! How, exactly?!
How do you enforce a fine on someone who literally has no fixed abode.

You don’t get to live life outside the law because of 1500 years of doing so! It’s not ethnic cleansing FFS. I’ve served in Bosnia and seen the results of ethnic cleansing. Travellers are being forcibly to live within the laws of the country and stop polluting and wrecking public spaces. Become socially responsible, have some respect for the environment and contribute to the country you wish to follow your lifestyle in.

And I’m still waiting to hear what you do with your waste water and chemical toilets? Or the dog shit you don’t pick up.

I know practically nothing about this...but a year or so ago travellers turned up on a green space in our town. They stayed for a few days then left, leaving their rubbish very neatly stacked in bin bags by a tree. There was no other trace that they had been there.