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Original poster

Baby taken away by social services whilst in A&E

413 replies

napol · 11/11/2019 21:32

Hi

I'm new to Mumsnet but am in desperate need of help/advice or better still has anyone out there been in the same situation as me.

I dropped my 10 month old boy at nursery one morning at 8am. He was his normal self - happy chappy with no injuries. I got a call from the nursery at 4.30pm from the manager saying despite no accident happening at nursery throughout the day he had developed a lump on the side of his head but not to worry as he was in no pain or discomfort but best I get it checked out.

we picked him up and took him to a&e immediately where to our horror he was diagnosed with a fractured skull. because the injury was unexplained social services and police were called and the decision was made not to let us take our baby boy home. We are now under investigation and cannot see him unless supervised. it looks like it will go to court months down the line.

We are innocent of any neglect or wrong doing and it seems to us the nursery are obviously to blame. Understandably we are devastated and heartbroken and just want our boy home

OP posts:
tictoc76 · 11/11/2019 22:48

oP - I only have positive experiences with SS but I do know of a particular horror story through a freind where their baby was removed, SS then agreed to the baby moving home if parents supervised at all times and SS could drop in unannounced at any time. The parents were completely blameless and the child had a condition meaning bones fractured very easily. Instead of being able to look after their baby they were accused of all kinds and dragged through the courts. They were eventually exonerated of all claims but it took its toil on them.

I’m not saying this to scare you but to advise you to get legal help to fight this. Don’t assume it will all come right just because you are innocent.

You will get there!

dreichwinter · 11/11/2019 22:49

This is obviously a very stressful situation.
It is also standard practice.
You have a small, vulnerable child with a significant head injury and no explanations as to how they got injured.
It would be profoundly irresponsible of social care to return the dc to the care of either the parents or the nursery until a thorough investigation of what the current situation actually is has taken place.
OP stay calm, work with professionals and take legal advice (so you have support).

Original poster
napol · 11/11/2019 22:51

they only noticed the bump at 4.30pm. 8 1/2 hours after my baby was dropped off....DROPPED OFF NOT DROPPED...sorry again for not being clear

OP posts:
Hotwaterbottle01 · 11/11/2019 22:52

If no accidents have happened at home and you know this for certain then something has happened at nursery!! Do they have CTV in the nursery? Some local ones to me do, or as others have said do they have an accident book?

Fractured skulls just don’t happen and if he was fine when you dropped him off until 4.30 then someone at nursery knows something!!

There could be the possibility another child could have injured your DC and nursery just don’t know?! Something could have been dropped on him? So perhaps the adults are not aware but if this isn’t the case and you know if didn’t happen at home then someone in the nursery knows what happened and is covering there own arse!!

TatianaLarina · 11/11/2019 22:54

There could be the possibility another child could have injured your DC and nursery just don’t know

Yep.

MaggieMcSplash · 11/11/2019 22:54

Your poor baby has a scull fracture. You've taken him to A&E with this injury. You don't know how it happened. Rightly so SS and police have decided their course of action. This I can assure you is standard. Their number one priority is your child not you. Whilst I understand this is very distressing you've got to be as open and honest as you can to SS and the police. If your child was injured in the care of the nursery staff that will come out. A child having this type of unexplained injury will be a joint investigation with SS and police. I hope he is ok.

AlpineCoromandel · 11/11/2019 22:55

Glad the nursery are being investigated too.

Lockheart · 11/11/2019 22:56

OP, you still haven't answered if he is under an emergency protection order, or indeed what order he is under.

If he IS under an EPO:

  • You should have been given one day's notice of the EPO being applied for. If you were not, as parents you can apply for your son to be discharged.
  • EPOs usually last up to 8 days but can be granted a 7 day extension with court agreement (so 15 days total). It won't be months down the line unless the local authority successfully applies for an interim care order while he's under the EPO.
  • If the local authority decides to apply for this, they should let you know.
  • During an EPO, local authorities can make assessments of the child's welfare / begin care proceedings, and should also reassess daily whether the EPO is still necessary.
  • If no other care orders are successfully applied for then at the end of the EPO your child should be returned to you.

I would strongly recommend you engage a family specialist solicitor and go through the legalities with them.

marshmallowss · 11/11/2019 22:57

Dropped off not dropped changes the whole thread.
I would be going crazy at the nursery. A fracture skull. Ffs. I feel sick for you op Thanks

itsgettingweird · 11/11/2019 22:57

Totally agree with it'snotme

I didn't do it won't cut it.

But questions like.
"He was fine at 7.30 when we left home and 8am when I left him at nursery. They clearly had no concerns or they would have mentioned it or called me at some point in the 8.5 hours he was in their care before the call. Could it be possible he had a skull fracture for 9+ hours which no one noticed?"

"What medical evidence is there that the injury occurred 9+ hours before the nursery reported their concerns to me"

Make them explain everything to you. Along side this ask them what you need to do to work with SS and police to return custody to you. State you are 100% confident in your innocence and you honestly have no idea how injury occurred. Also be fair and say you understand if it happened within nursery it would have been an accident.

Unfortunately in SS cases it appears arse about tit compared to criminal justice system. In CJS you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt the defendant did it. In child safeguarding it appears (IME) you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt you didn't do it.

MrsP2015 · 11/11/2019 22:59

OMFG you poor thing, this would be my worst nightmare.

Hope he's back with you ASAP.

Original poster
napol · 11/11/2019 22:59

apparently it would need to be some impact - fall from a height or heavy blow to cause a fracture. I don't believe another toddler could have done it

OP posts:
Rubyroost · 11/11/2019 23:01

@itsgertingweird unless it's changed you don't have to prove beyond reasonable doubt, I believe in the family courts it is on the balance of probability or something similar. The idea behind this is that if it is child protection, then less proof is needed as the child is paramount. Seems corrupt to me

MadeForThis · 11/11/2019 23:02

Would there be cctv of you entering the nursery that morning?

Nursery sounds very suspicious. If bump was present it would have been recorded.

Did they record how he ate/ slept that day? Was there anything out of the ordinary that could isolate when the injury might have occurred?

Original poster
napol · 11/11/2019 23:02

thank you for all responses, advice and nice messages of concern its really appreciated and I didn't realise a forum like this would be as helpful and reassuring.

we have solicitors already (legal aid) we are willing to pay for a better solicitor if need be. We have 100s of questions we want answering from the Nursery.

OP posts:
ItsNotMeItsNotMe · 11/11/2019 23:04

@itsgettingweird totally ask those questions! You get one chance to explain yourself, or your side of the story. Get yourself as educated as you can with your sons injury & circumstances, leave no stone unturned. Don’t wait for people to mess around get the answers yourself. Ask to see statements from nursery employees to look for inconsistencies. Ask them for his daily log if they have one, look for gaps in care such as has he been left unsupervised at any point. If they don’t have a journal or log ask for one to be wrote for you, to tell you exactly what he did that day at nursery. “He was on the swing outside with Oliver” who was supervising? Did Oliver push him off for example

MesmorisedByTheLights · 11/11/2019 23:05

If it happened at nursery, they must have known. It would take quite a hard knock to fracture a skull. Either they were negligent and didn't notice, are covering it up or it didn't happen at nursery. (I'm making no judgements either way)

OP, lots of god thoughts to you. I can't imagine how awful this is.

itsgettingweird · 11/11/2019 23:06

It's not changed ruby but the burden of proof differs. Courts will do fact finding and even if they can't find evidence to say someone particular did it if they also can't prove who didn't do it child can remain in care.

In criminal if evidence doesn't prove you did it you are innocent.

Original poster
napol · 11/11/2019 23:06

we signed a section 20 to have in put in care, we had to or instant caught case and could have gone to a foster home

OP posts:
EugenesAxe · 11/11/2019 23:08

The other children thing is a good suggestion... at a baby group I was at when my DS was young, a toddler hit a baby on the head with a wooden hammer from a playset. Thank goodness, nothing serious happened.

I really hope all works out for you OP. As others have said don't take this personally - they are legally obliged to do this while they investigate Flowers

Rubyroost · 11/11/2019 23:09

Yes @itsgettingweird it does that's what I'm saying. In the family courts they have to prove on the balance of probabilities to take a child into care rather than beyond reasonable doubt so if its 52% likely that child was injured by parent (in the judges opinion) they can take child into care.
Op you will need to get a good solicitor, I'm assuming you have one specialised in family law and courts and has a good history in defending clients.

Brigante9 · 11/11/2019 23:09

Much as I appreciate the NHS, don’t trust A&E! 6 consultants looked at me and couldn’t diagnose what my DH managed to google and my GP confirmed when all the skin detached from my foot. One doctor insisted. a 6 year old injury might be related and said how weird it was when the skin on my hands also started detaching.

I hope this is resolved ASAP, OP, I cannot imagine how stressful this is for you all.

Original poster
napol · 11/11/2019 23:11

I missed a key fact too. we received a call at 11am from them saying he had a temperature and could they give him capol. is that suspicious, could he have banged his head then and they wanted to adminster capol to calm/settle him down?

OP posts:
EugenesAxe · 11/11/2019 23:12

Nursery sounds very suspicious. If bump was present it would have been recorded.

Blimey yes this is an excellent point. Their own safeguarding policies should have necessitated record of a conversation with you that established the origin of the bump, and they should have recorded it on a body map.

Rubyroost · 11/11/2019 23:13

@nalpol God op, I hope whoever it is at the nursery has the good conscience to come clean. Who called? Surely there's not more than one person 'in on it' or else this will surely be uncovered soon enough.

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