which aspects of being in the EU do you object to??

[Pricedrop]

I mean SPECIFICALLY. I have only heard vague 'we want to govern our own country' reasons for Brexit...

it seems that the deal that we are wanting, on leaving the EU is largely the definition of being IN the EU. so, for example the customs/trading standards aspect and the avoidance of the hard border in Ireland

I'd love someone to explain the actual issues which are hoped to be resolved by leaving the EU..

Posters talking about how EU immigration is somehow racist always forget that it is RECIPROCAL. We all have had the same rights as EU citizens. There are rules around it that other countries enforce. The fact that the UK never bothered is not the fault of the EU

And when the countries of the EU were relatively similar this made sense- pretty much equal numbers of brits live in Spain/France etc as those here. Far less have gone to work in Poland, Lithuania, Romania!
Also as far as I understand it the "rules" we have to control immigration are once people are already in the UK, i.e. it would cost the UK a lot of time and money to follow up on every migrant. Better to have a policy before allowing people to enter, i.e a FAIR immigration system!!!!!!!

Interesting thread, thanks.
What years of living outside the UK in a different EU country has made me look at my home country in a different way.
I can't for the life of me think why the UK didn't put restrictions on the entry of Bulgarians and Romanians at first, as other countries did. Why the UK doesn't ask people to register where they live so that they can have their police records checked, as they do in other countries.

ID cards…

Until I (due to Brexit) took citizenship of this country, i was always aware that should I not adhere to certain rules (unemployment for more than three months is a great example) I'd have to go back to where I came from.

I'm also not enamoured of the EU fishing policy that leads to waste. But inside the EU there is a better chance of getting it to change. I'm looking forward, however, to the British fishing fleet only catching fish above a certain size to show the rest how it's done.

Somebody should come up with a "Who wants to be a millionaire" special, based on EuroMyths. If you can answer 15 straight questions about the EU correctly you get £1,000,000 ...

We could also have a "politicians" version, where politicians can play. First wrong answer and it's bye-bye.

Given how some game formats have become popular as pub games, this could play up and down the country.

I sort of lived in Germany for a while (long story). I had to:

1. Make sure I had stable accommodation
2. Register said accommodation at the town hall, provide tenancy agreement etc.
3. Prove I had the money to sustain myself and/or an employment contract.

This is what we should have been doing with the people who came here. None of it is hugely onerous if you are genuinely looking to live and work in said country.

I do blame our government for not managing this in the right way. But if we can’t trust our government to represent our interests in the EU then what can we do? This is precisely why I chose to abstain from voting. I believed that overall we were better off in the EU, but at the same time I didn’t feel our government represented our interests well enough. That isn’t the fault of the EU, but the only vote put to the public was leave or remain.

My neighbours said they voted Leave because the EU is not allowing us to eat bendy cucumbers and the Germans are running our banks and telling us when to print money.
I kid you not.

One EU Rule I don't like is the prospect of Nigel Lawson not getting French residence and being deported back here.

Iggly If the EU/ECB didn't go through the finances of Greece with a fine tooth comb before allowing them to join the Euro, then that is entirely down to the EU.

The reason the Greeks didn't leave the Euro was due to the ECB acting behind the scenes to squeeze Tsiprias' balls in a vice by cutting off liquidity, so the money stopped at the cash points, and then capital controls were introduced. He should have listened to Varoufakis.

Asta We have to do the same in Belgium. The issue for the UK is that we don't in general, have ID cards unless it's for work. If we moved to ID cards (and fingerprinting as Begium is doing from the end of this year), then perhaps we could police this better.

Upthread, a pp mentioned that the EU was a second layer above us. My attitude to authority of any sort is that it's shitheads all the way up. If there are MORE layers of shitheads, they will find it harder to directly oppress me. As for it being unelected, think about the last time you voted: was the constituency MP and government that won what you voted for? FPTP guarantees that two thirds of voters don't get that double win, and with a falling vote, it's 75% of the entire electorate.

With the EU parliamentary elections, those figures are reversed for constituencies. Everyone gets a result, and when the MPs do their job, it makes a difference.

I can't for the life of me think why the UK didn't put restrictions on the entry of Bulgarians and Romanians at first, as other countries did. Why the UK doesn't ask people to register where they live so that they can have their police records checked, as they do in other countries.

Sounds expensive. Is there any point?

The argument against unchecked EU immigration is not that they're not self-supporting, but rather that an unlimited supply of cheap labour depresses wages.

If there are MORE layers of shitheads, they will find it harder to directly oppress me.
This makes no sense.

.. The control was there just not implement....

Ahh ok.

So apparently intelligent lawyers, barristers like tb chose not to implement controls.. So yah.

Let's stay in the eu and just hope further eu mad pms do put our country first and implement controls.... Yah.

What Blair did.... Was criminal. In very. Many. Ways.

He severed trust. That's trust has gone.
Our government cannot function to the best interests of this country under the eu. That has been proved to us.

Sounds expensive is there any point.

So, we have people arguing against capital punishment in case one innocent person is accidently put to death?

But.. When it comes to eu citizens who have previous convictions etc... It's too expensive to check them so...

Let them kill?? Really?????

We don’t make people register their address, as many European countries do. You can come here and disappear. We couldn’t even get any info on previous convictions for these people.

So rather than asking your EU neighbours across the puddle about cheapest and fastest way to implement these systems (hi from the Netherlands), it's somehow better to turn tail and run from the EU?

why wasn't it already in place before our leaders at the time allowed the largest wave of immigration the uk has ever seen.

www.carecheck.co.uk/brussels-to-block-uk-carrying-out-criminal-record-checks-on-eu-nationals/

Brussels is aiming to prevent the UK government from undertaking criminal record checks on EU nationals who apply for settled status in Britain post Brexit.

Negotiators in Brussels are urging the European Court of Justice to overrule the implementation of any agreement on citizens’ rights, however, the UK have strongly criticised this move.

Currently, the proposals would allow anyone who has lived in the UK for five years to be given ‘settled status’ and this would allow them to secure their position in the country.

Anyone arriving after the triggering of Article 50, but before a cut-off date which is yet to be decided, would also have the opportunity to stay in the UK for 5 years and gain status.

The proposal would restrict the right to give EU nationals the freedom to bring over family members to the UK.

Britain insists that EU nationals’ criminal record checks should be checked when they apply for settled status and wants other European countries to follow suit, however, the EU will not permit such checks.

WOW. the people who look after the most vulnerable in our society.

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/13/kings-of-cocaine-albanian-mafia-uk-drugs-crime

Another repercussion of the Albanian model has, say some, helped fuel knife crime and drug disputes by making cocaine affordable to smaller, younger street gangs. A recent report by the London borough of Waltham Forest said gangs were moving from postcode rivalries to commercial enterprises focused on dealing cocaine. Last Tuesday, 14-year-old Jayden Moodie was killed in the borough during a targeted attack, though his family say he had no gang involvement.

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/743263/killer-criminal-violent-rape-poland-woman-leicester-britain

A KILLER fled his violent criminal past in Poland to come to Britain where he mugged and raped a woman in a horrific sex attack, a court heard.

He told the judge: “What we don’t have are the facts of those offences. In this case you will have to sentence the defendant for a random violent sexual attack.

“You need a full account of the earlier offending in Poland, which means an international letter of request [for the information] can be sent now that guilty pleas have been entered.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11379810/Burglars-who-attacked-university-professor-receive-hefty-jail-sentences.html

Four Polish burglars who took part in a raid which left a university professor "savagely" beaten have been jailed for up to 19-years.

www.getreading.co.uk/news/local-news/lithuanian-stabbed-lover-after-suffering-6716409

www.sloughexpress.co.uk/news/maidenhead/6331/Man--24--jailed-after.html

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/571061/Human-rights-extradition-Kestutis-Martuzevicius-Lithuanian-gangster

it goes on and on and on.

why = why were checks not in place before - workers rights dropped> why?

To those saying x amount of people coiuldnt be bothered to vote. I think there were a fair chunk, myself included, who actively chose to abstain. Had I been “forced’ to vote I probably would have gone with keave. So don’t assume that all non voters would have been remainers.

Freedom of movement.

Germany welcomed millions of illegal immigrants with open arms. As soon as they get passports for any other EU country they can waltz straight in to the UK. People saw the issues these immigrants were causing in Germany and were concerned they’d use their new German passports to come here.

Also Poland joined the EU and suddenly we had lots of Poles in the UK - it became clear that the EU could let any country join and we’d be forced to let them into the UK. Turkey has wanted to join the EU for decades, and at the time of the Brexit vote they were demanding EU membership as a condition of the 2016 refugee deal. People were concerned that the EU would be forced to let Turkey join and the UK would be flooded with Turks.

Posters talking about how EU immigration is somehow racist always forget that it is RECIPROCAL
That only works when countries are equal and movement occurs in both directions. It doesn’t work when the EU lets poorer countries join and they all flood into the UK while none of us want to go there.

@BizzzzyBee please say your posts are just a joke, playing on the "thick and racist" stereotypes about Leave voters.

Germany welcomed millions of illegal immigrants with open arms

That's not what they did. They received a massive influx of refugees (partly because other countries wouldn't take any/many) and they were processed according to German/EU law.

Many have been sent back, many are still living in institutions while their asylum claims are being checked. They don't get any (or much, i can't remember the details) cash, they do have access to schools and medical care. Also German/integration lessons when their claim is approved. Where their claim is not approved they get sent back.

They are not allowed to work unless/until their asylum claim is approved and they get German citizenship. The only differnce between them and a Brit who took German citizenship is that during the wait for German citizenship the Brits had all the rights Germans have. After - they are the same.

But it's interesting. Because I see a lot of people say that EU FOM rules are racist because Europeans are white. So SURELY these people would be happy that new German citizens who were refugees from Africa and therefore generally not white, would be going to the UK. Because equality.

Thank you for this thread.

I'm a Remainer, but a knee-jerk Remainer who couldn't have argued my principles for toffee. I now feel better armed, in a much more balanced way.

That's not what they did. They received a massive influx of refugees
They declared an open door policy in 2015. Unsurprisingly lots of people took advantage of it, including people who weren’t actually refugees.

They are not allowed to work unless/until their asylum claim is approved and they get German citizenship
And then they can use that citizenship to come straight to the UK. Which in many cases was their goal from the beginning.

I voted remain because I think it better to reform from within. I see EU as flawed but now so deeply integrated with our laws that I voted to support the status quo fearing that the upheaval of leaving would be v detrimental to UK. Senior Forces people I know, v v senior and intelligent types, are Leavers based on what they know about the EU plans for defence. Maybe they're right I don't know.

I voted remain because I think it better to reform from within

I agree in a way. But reform wasn't happening. I think that was the issue for a lot of people. All they could see was us losing more and more. I guess it remains to be seen if we lose more by leaving. My own thoughts are that there will be a period of difficulty (hard to know how long that will last) but that things will settle down. As an abstainer I was willing to accept whatever happened. So I'm not going to complain now.