which aspects of being in the EU do you object to??

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I mean SPECIFICALLY. I have only heard vague 'we want to govern our own country' reasons for Brexit...

it seems that the deal that we are wanting, on leaving the EU is largely the definition of being IN the EU. so, for example the customs/trading standards aspect and the avoidance of the hard border in Ireland

I'd love someone to explain the actual issues which are hoped to be resolved by leaving the EU..

TalbotAMan and fluffedup

Thank you for engaging with this thread. I was undecided when the original vote came about for valid reasons like the ones you have listed.

What I find so difficult is that leave has been represented by the likes of Farage, Rees-Mogg and Gove whom I find utterly abhorrent. I can not identify with their views at all and so deeply distrust their motives.

I am interested in this thread.

@Iggly

I hate the racism aspect of this. I am half Polish. I hold the media at least in part responsible for the increase in racist incidents by their insistence that the 17.4million Brexit voters are racist. In my experience racists come out of the woodwork when they think they have company. The media's insistence that Britain is a nation of racists has created an increased risk for anyone bearing a foreign-sounding name.

When the referendum result was announced the BBC showed a series of street interviews with Brexit voters. These people expressed racist views and looked quite scummy. It was in direct contrast to my the people I know who voted Leave. One guy was so thick he could barely speak, although that didn't matter as the camera was too busy focusing on his swastika tattoo. It must have taken some searching to find someone with a swastika tattoo.

My late father was concerned about the direction the eu was taking and would have voted leave if he was alive then, and it would have amused him to find that he was regarded as anti-Polish.

The accusation of racism is a useful one to stop people supporting Brexit thus potentially allowing the EU to continue implementing trade deals that are not in the interest of the non-rich.

I object to not having the euro as our currency. As we have seen over the past couple of years it is a more stable currency than the £.

Some of the bile on the Leave.EU Facebook page for example is appalling and being associated with that cannot be a comfortable place to be.

Are you comfortable being associated, as a Remainer, with the vitriol poured on Leavers? Neanderthal, knuckle dragging cunts, gammons etc, names that are frequently seen on MN. It works both ways, or do you consider that being a Remainer give you the moral high ground?

I voted Leave, and as I don't have FB (I refuse to be exploited by Zuckerberg), I wouldn't know what is on the page you reference. Thus, I don't feel uncomfortable.

Also there was nothing to stop the government relaxing the entry requirements for non EU citizens. Being part of the EU is irrelevant. A red herring. They just didn’t want to.

Of course they didn’t - the British public wants net migration lowered, as long as you have an open door policy with the EU the only answer is to tighten restrictions on non EU migrants! That’s my whole point, that system is unfair! The answer is not to throw down the boarders to everyone but a fair immigration policy!

I object to not having the euro as our currency. As we have seen over the past couple of years it is a more stable currency than the £

Seriously?!! Yes it’s worked beautifully for Greece.

Discrimination against immigration from outside the EU: the White, Christian club is all very well, but some of us would like to be able to pay our debt to the Commonwealth, whether through free trade or potential for immigration.

Parliamentary sovereignty (though seeing how they behave, that's starting to lessen)

Issues over the ECB and being obliged to bail out other countries

Lack of accountability within EU structures (especially auditing)

The democratic deficit (see Moravscik for discussion on this)

EU's differential application of its own laws and rules eg Italy punished for its deficit and widening debt to GDP gap, as illegal under EU law. Fair enough. France in not a dissimilar situation. No consequences. Germany has illegal current account situation. No consequences.

And yes, there was rules against relaxing immigration rules, because we were no longer allowed to give beneficial status to the Commonwealth in any way, including over immigration status.

Plus, the influx of generally unskilled A8 citizens meant public appetite for immigration in general was harmed, and there was also no longer a visible need for this kind of immigration. Highly skilled immigrants from anywhere have always been able to come in the end, but frankly, if we're creating opportunities at the other end of the scale, I'd rather it went to those descendants of the people who stood beside us or fought with us in WW1 and 2, and whose nations enriched ours through the slave trade and colonialism. That seems far more meaningful than arbitrary reparations now.

Yes it’s worked beautifully for Greece

What exactly do you think happened in Greece..... they basically fudged their books to join the euro and that fudging caught up on them.

I think a lot of the things people at work keep talking about could have been delt with by our own government without leaving the EU. But our own govenment doesn't seem to listen or do many things ordinary people are annoyed about.
So at work I hear about Fishing (we are costal) not sure what they are saying but something to do with quotas and other countries taking fish when our fishermen aren't allowed to fish.
The EU having countries join who haven't got the economy to be part of EU, taking much more than they put in I'm told.
Some Eu countries now being able to afford to lower retirement ages. I don't think this is true. But not sure.
People coming to UK from EU, with lots of children, claiming child benefit then returning home and continuing to legally get the payments. Also not sure if this actually happpens.
I'm sure there are other things I've heard.
But they do not talk about illegal immigrants, they are a seperate issue.

as long as you have an open door policy with the EU the only answer is to tighten restrictions on non EU migrants

Then the problem is the view of the British public, not the EU.

We could have been tighter on EU immigration but chose not to be. Not the EU’s fault.

My point is that the EU is flawed but leaving the EU based on misunderstandings and half truths is a mistake.

Let’s have a sensible debate about what our membership/relationship looks like in future.

I’ve learnt so much since the June referendum and continue to learn.

Are you comfortable being associated, as a Remainer, with the vitriol poured on Leavers?

I’m not comfortable with the level of debate in some quarters. Not at all.

But I’m even more uncomfortable with the racist tone in the Leave campaign 🤷🏻‍♀️

@fluffedup

Good Post.

Interesting to see how many of the usual suspects acknowledge it.

Before, during ref tons of posts like that from leavers but ignored, picked apart etc people don't usually bother now.

Iggly... Then it's clear our government in the past has not acted in the best interests of this country.

That is the point of our government. And yet Blair seemed to favour this other layer of government above us... The eu.

So, we can't trust our leaders to operate in our best interest at all, therefore we have to remove that second layer above us... And help keep future governments focused.

@Autumnintheair that was because on previous threads no one actually put forward factual reasons or just said ‘I don’t need to justify myself and my vote’.

Freedom of movement is, in theory, a good idea. However when the countries involved are so inequal in terms of standard of living, welfare system, tax, healthcare etc, then it places an unfair burden on some countries, such as the UK. Why the government did not place restrictions on this I cannot understand, and I think this more than anything led to people voting to leave.

Then it's clear our government in the past has not acted in the best interests of this country

Quelle surprise.

But the EU is not the reason for that. Our government choose not to be stricter on immigration when they would have been able to within the terms ofEU membership.

Blaming the EU is a red herring.

@ Iggly and you think the EU was unaware of the state of Greece's books?

Either the EU didn't look at the books closely enough, or didn't want to...so incompetent and dishonest. Gives one great faith in the whole thing.

Prices went through the roof when Belgium adopted the Euro. They seem to have stayed there.

To answer the original question...the Acquis, and the move away from national competencies. I am also not in favour of the EU having Armed Forces. Mind you, under von Der Leyen, they'd have broomsticks anyway and not rifles. I object to ever close union, and would like far more transparency in the dealings of the Commission and Council than we have now.

I fail to see why we need a supranational organisation with its own Foreign Office (EEAS), EUMS, Parliament, Presidents, Supreme Court, and Bank, for what was supposedly a loose grouping of trading states. As Barosso said in 2007, the EU has the dimensions of empire. Why the Remain lobby choose to ignore what that means is beyond me.

The three people I know who voted leave gave the following reasons.

1. the EU is undemocratic, the MEPs don't make the laws civil servants do.

2. Wanted 'business to come back' but has now changed her mind and claims people didn't know what they voted for

3. Because his employer told him to

I want to stay in the EU.

and you think the EU was unaware of the state of Greece's books

Not until it was too late.

I’ve actually read a bit of economic history on this.

I’ll add - that was why the EU imposed massive austerity on Greece. They had the choice to either leave the euro or take austerity......

Everything that @yellowallpaper @OnlyFoolsnMothers @SudowoodoVoodoo @fluffedup @TalbotAMan and @Hefzi have said.

I'm so glad this thread was started in chat because it means posters have been willing to come forward with their views without being abused and name called like on the Brexit board, although I'll be surprised if this thread hasn't descended into that by later today....,

I agree with what other posters have said that a lot of these things aren't necessarily directly down to being in the EU and possibly are things our government could change. But I don't think they've had the appetite for change while we are in the EU, I think a lot of people voted Brexit (rightly or wrongly) as a way of trying to make the government sit up and listen.

It doesn't feel like they're doing that yet and whether they do and start making the changes people want going forward remains to be seen, I don't think I'll hold my breath though.....

Posters talking about how EU immigration is somehow racist always forget that it is RECIPROCAL. We all have had the same rights as EU citizens. There are rules around it that other countries enforce. The fact that the UK never bothered is not the fault of the EU.

TheresaWaldo. I just wish these rules had been adhered to because none of this shitstorm would be happening now. I suspect many Leavers were unaware EU citizens had no right to stay unless they had legitimate employment and that it was a massive failure of government to enforce EU rules. There was a huge misinformation campaign around taking back control, when the control was already there, just not implemented. I think if rules were tightened up and the EU got it's house in order (stop the nonsensical movement of the EU parliament costing £millions) I would certainly vote Remain, although I would prefer a Norway + deal.