Uniform is supposed to equal the DC out......but of course it doesn't

[JoceHark]

At DC's school everyone knows who has money and who doesn't. First it was the designer coats, the school then cracked down and said no brand names on coats.

Then the bags.

Now it's the belts. Kids wearing designer logo'd belts to school (no current ban in place).

Also a bizarre rule which says girls can wear one single ring (plain) and boys can wear a signet ring. Firstly I know plenty of women who still wear a signet ring (seems sexist that only boys can at school), but the signet rings they are wearing are bling'd to all hell and back.

Should we just accept that school uniform is actually a load of bollocks.

It doesn't prepare them for work, how many office staff do you know who wear a tie and blazer to work everyday? And how many of them are women?

It's a huge bill for parents

It creates a wall between parents and the school and kids and the school

It's just an unnecessary cause of stress all round and hasn't been proven to have any benefit on education. We seem to just cling on to it as a British thing which has always been done

I don't understand the people saying uniform doesn't prepare people for working life since in the real world there are many people who wear uniforms in their jobs - all the uniformed services (obviously, apart from plain clothes police officers, maybe); healthcare professionals; supermarket workers; delivery drivers; airline staff... Like someone else said, it helps kids understand a dress code.

But then, it's the same in the real world all over Europe and in all the countries which don't have a school uniform culture. Their population seem to have no problem understanding the dress code if they go into an occupation which has one, despite having gone through their entire education not wearing uniforms.

They just create their own bloody uniform themselves...
Yes, very true.

...with masses of added peer pressure, tears and expense.
Not at all true.

Uniform at least helps a bit to make it less obvious who are the haves and the have nots.
EdtheBear

But why would children be speculating about this in the first place?

What sort of homes do children come from if that is something they would be thinking about?

Why not stop focusing on this at home and in school and start teaching children to respect each other and treat each other with kindness?

It just doesnt take kids a lot of effort to see who has money and who hasn't esp in a very mixed area.

Bob with the adidas trainers went to Disney in summer,
Billy went to Blackpool, his clothes etc are like mine, ok no labels.
Elizabeth (with the greasy hair) has a dinner ticket and her shoes are knackered shs is going to get under her duvet when she gets home (probably because they have no heating)!

It just doesn't take lots of working out to realise who has money and who doesn't. Why make it even more obvious?

Ed I have spent the past 8 years living life in close proximity to teenagers, listening to their conversations, and I can honestly say I have never heard them discussing this stuff. Not. Once. And this is a group of teens who go to a school with a very mixed catchment, ranging from wealthy mc to very deprived. Coincidentally it is also a school that is really good at tackling bullying hard and fast.

My DDs have always been part of very mixed friendship groups, with girls ranging from the very wealthy (one the daughter of a millionnaire) to stony broke with mental health problems at home. Still no discussions about who is rich and who is poor - they didn't care.

They're all now in 6th form where there is no uniform and they all look exactly the same.

But why is not having money seen as so deeply shameful? It's like we're still in the Victorian age.

Why are we perpetuating the idea that poorer children should be the target for bullies? As though it's inevitable you'll be bullied unless your parents have a comfortable income.

We should be promoting the idea that bullying is not Ok, not that having unfashionable clothes is so shameful that you're asking to be bullied, and that the only way of stopping it is teflon skirts and polyester blazers for everyone.

My dd attended an upper school with no uniform, was a nightmare, designer clothing etc (dd was mostly in Asda!). For sixth form she choose a school with a uniform.

EdtheBear but who does that?

Are you honestly saying that kids are taking notes, comparing and contrasting?

And instead of challenging this behaviour, schools, parents, and society in general have decided that the problem of toxic jealousy, personal insecurity, lack of resilience, low self esteem, and just plain nastiness should be tackled by fiddling with the symptoms while leaving the cause intact?

@Whathappenedtothelego Excellent post.

@pointythings ah yes the safety goggles! And all the cycling to and from school (or rollerblading in the summer months). We were all about practical clothes because we had to wear it year round it wasn't a novelty to dress up like it's the red carpet.

Also @EdtheBear I've both been Bob and Elizabeth in a UK school and honestly wasn't the reason I was bullied. Kids in non uniform countries don't think about that either, tbh we just found out who had the most sims2 extensions and went to their house to play sims. Or who had a dog/own bed room/a sofa to sit on/who wanted to play football. Can't say we ever thought about going to Bob's because he was rich. Can't say I've ever thought about the brand trainers ANYONE's EVER worn, even today.

My kids are in S London comps where no one is different because everyone is different. Diversity is a way of life, economic background included.

They don’t bully or exclude on the basis of clothes or access to cash. In fact it would be seen as deeply uncool to do so.

I agree with WhatHappenedYoTheLego .

It just doesn't take lots of working out to realise who has money and who doesn't. Why make it even more obvious?

Why does uniform make it less obvious?

Schools here are non-uniform. We are reasonably well off for our (deprived) area. My DS's best friend is so short of money that we have provided him with new trainers in the past. But looking at them you'd not be able to guess which was which (and if you tried I am almost certain you would guess wrong). Clothing is a total non issue for DS, as it was for his older sister.

Personally I think it's no wonder that bullying is so rife when our expectations of children are so low that the only way to stop them being arse holes is to shield them from any kind of difference in the world .

How do we expect children to not pick on people who are poorer or whatever when it's A) so shameful it must be hidden from sight at all costs

And B) it's ok for the adults to bully poor children by sending them home or to isolation for being incorrectly dressed having effectively charged then 400 quid to get through the door.

What done hope this achieves exactly ?

Surely we should be teaching our children about kindness and not judging and not being horrible little brats? Not reinforcing the idea that some people are so horrible to look at we have to hide them

Kids who 'flexed the merch' were seen as not cool at dds old state secondary. Now she's at a private school.with strict uniform, the cool kids are the ones who manage to integrate really old sports hoodies with the old logo on, the old shirts which had smaller collars and ancient blazers (less boxy). Kids will always find a way to differentiate themselves.

I went to a very prestigious school and my DC go to two others - in both cases regulations were very clear regarding uniform - in fact my youngest daughter was pulled up last at her £12k a year prep because her tights were too sheer - you have a list - conform to it, anything outside of that is none of your business

Why moan about the cost of uniform, you know that every August you need to buy it, you even get given CB to help with the cost, the uniform is the same all year, if the children wore normal clothes they would want new clothes every month depending on weather and what was in fashion. The cost isnt that much compared to 5 different out fits every week

I don't agree with the idea of school uniforms, but the UK will never get rid of them unfortunately - the market is too big. Just imagine how much money would be lost if we abolished the huge industry of school uniforms.

kids would choose inappropriate clothing which also may not be right for eg science.

This comment is hilarious. Scientists wear whatever they like, the rules at my work are just that you have wear your PPE (safety specs and labcoat, both supplied and laundered by the company) and leather shoes that cover your toes and don't have excessively high heels. The shoe rules are ignored by most people (lots of trainers). Under our lacoats we have goths, fashion victims, dresses, skirts, jeans, shorts, whatever. Science is not something that needs a suit (in fact crawling under a lab bench to sort out a piece of equipment is probably best not done with a suit on).

I went to a nonuniform school (and as a scientist have never worn a uniform to work), my kids go to a uniform school. I resent the extra clothes I have to buy and the impact on the environment of all the bloody polyester. I also dislike the forcing of gender stereotypes onto the girls because of uniforms (e.g. not being allowed to wear trousers), never mind the fetishisation of school uniforms (think about Britney Spears in 'Hit me Baby'). My DC are perfectly capable of choosing their own clothes, they managed all through the holidays (and my youngest is 6). If I had the choice they would go to a nonuniform school but unfortunately that is not an option. Roll on 6th year when they can wear what they want (and the girls who have been wearing bum skimming skirts for 5 years start wearing jeans and a baggy jumper).

Under our lacoats we have goths, fashion victims, dresses, skirts, jeans, shorts, whatever. Science is not something that needs a suit (in fact crawling under a lab bench to sort out a piece of equipment is probably best not done with a suit on)

Ha yes again, dismally low expectations!

I'd love to know what a detention for a green coat as opposed to a black coat that's not even worn inside the school teaches them about dressing appropriately for activities

In fact if theres one thing school manages to do its actively punish for and prevent children from.wearing activity appropriate clothing.

It would often seem that children rearing coats over their blazers and walking boots to school when they have a long walk to school in the rain are far more clued up with regards to what's sensible than the teachers who insist on blazers being worn in heat waves in the class room.and allow ballet flats but not ankle boots

Why moan about the cost of uniform, you know that every August you need to buy it, you even get given CB to help with the cost, the uniform is the same all year, if the children wore normal clothes they would want new clothes every month depending on weather and what was in fashion. The cost isnt that much compared to 5 different out fits every week

Child benefit (which not everyone gets) is not for uniforms.

Uniform frequently isn't the same all year - see, in particular, the academies that change uniforms every time they get a new head or the governors fancy flexing their muscles.

Children may want new clothes every month, parents don't have to give in; plus, of course, having uniform doesn't stop that. As people have pointed out, in schools without uniforms the reality is that the children fetch up in jeans, Tshirts and sweatshirts and it's much, much cheaper than shirts that cost £12 just because they've got a school logo on.

What is Child benefit for if not for your child ?

notso what is "roadmen" ?