I think DD is outspoken and rude. DP says I am over-reacting..

[Eastie77]

DD is 6. When she was younger she was very shy and often refused point blank to reply to people when they spoke to her. As she has gotten older she has become a lot more confident and now replies and seems comfortable when spoken to. However with this has come what I feel is a poor attitude while DP thinks it is just 'personality'.

Recent example: we are currently on holiday and DD made friends with a little girl at the beach. I was talking to the girls mum about the return to school next week. The other mum said to DD "I bet you're looking forward to school". DD snapped back "No I'm not actually". The other mum laughed and said she was sure DD would enjoy it once she was back to which DD replied haughtily "How would you know? You don't go to my school". I was mortified. This is just one small example. DD often has to have the last word/answer back when an adult converses with her and often feels as if she has to challenge them. In restaurants she clicks her fingers at waiting staff and says "bring me...". I always instantly tell her off. It doesn't help that in DP's native language (which she speaks) requests are always in the imperative and he has taught her that please and thank you are an "English obsession"

She is fine playing with other children and makes friends easily (I watch her like a hawk to ensure she is not dominating or being rude).

She is not like this at school at all and is very quiet. Her school report was glowing and her teacher said DD is an angel an excellent role model, so polite etc. I thought he had mixed her up with another child tbh. I don't want to suppress her personality but I don't want her to behave like a brat either. I would not have dreamt of speaking to an adult the way I often hear DD addressing people. DP is convinced this is normal behaviour for a developing 6 year old. If you have bothered to read this far, does anyone agree with this?

SofiaAmes then please don't be an armchair diagnoser hmm Most asc 'rudeness' comes from a place of stress and anxiety. my dd has asc but certainly knows not to snap her fingers at waiters.

I had no idea that my DD1 could have ASD until she was 12 and she fell to pieces badly. I wish I'd had someone armchair diagnose her suggest I look into ASD when she was younger.

If you have a child with ASD, you will know that some of the 'rudeness' can also be rooted in impaired theory of mind and difficulties with social communication. Also, the ability to transfer instructions and rules from one situation to another can be significantly impaired.

It's very hard to be sure what the reasons are behind a child's behaviour from a very brief description on an internet forum and I'm sure most OPs welcome all suggestions.

The point here is not the child, the husband is also rude, he's teaching his daughter it.

I've no clue why someone would be with a man who behaves as rhe ops husband, but she is. And he's teaching his kid to be rude. That's not cultural any more than it's cultural in the U.K., or Germany or any where else. He's just a horrible man.

if she keeps talking to people like that, one day she'll cop attitude with the wrong person and its not like when we were growing up, we had a punch up and that was the end of it, teenagers carry knives now. At best no one will like her and at worst she will start something she can't finish

Blimey, calm down. She's 6 and she's a delight at school. I don't think we need to consign her to a life as a social pariah and/or homicide victim just yet...

TBH, I think the, "No I'm not actually" reply is fine from a 6 year old - they are too young at that age to understand the social conventions of small talk. But the rudeness to waiters etc is completely unacceptable - though it's her father's fault, not hers.

Ooh yes I think that behaviour needs nipping in the bud.Ds is 5.5 and can sometimes get lippy with immediate family which he gets told off for but if he spoke like that to a polite stranger I'd be mortified.

One of my friends raises her son in another country where there isn't actually a word for please and thank you and it would be seen as begging. He is the sweetest little boy but my whole body cringes when he says "i want a sandwich" or "where's my drink?". I do insist he asks for it nicely prior to getting him it, the same as I would for my 2 year old. I'm a nurse and the amount of demanding rude adults really gets me down and is certainly not what I want for my child.

My niece is very similar to your daughter. Her dads family (all UK) are very in to education and think that its smart when a child is able to question a grown adult but I just find it incredibly rude and insufferable. I don't honestly think it does a child any favours to encourage them to be smart and gobby rather than kind and thoughtful. It certainly hasnt made her dads side any more pleasant to spend time with.

The restaurant thing is bad but the school thing isn't that bad - should she lie? Sure, there's better way of saying it, but teaching your kids to conceal what they really feel and give the "right" answer for the purpose of small talk is a bit sad.

If people asked if I was looking forward to work after holiday, I'd say nah not really. Then again I'm not British.

I suppose some people on this thread talk to children and ask them questions only for the sake of small talk with no interest in what they actually think or feel.

@moomoogalicious I was not actually referring to rudeness as a sign of Aspergers. It was the initial description of the OP's dd who was described as being non-social/interactive when she was younger and then very literal as she got older like when she replied to the mum friend's questioning about school. Also, mimicking behavior, like snapping fingers, without fully understanding the social cue that it gives off, is common for Aspergers.
I have many Aspergers in my family and these are behaviors that would be quite normal for them.

Funnily enough, when I lived in the UK, I would often get comments from people about how un-British (I am Italian/American) I was because when someone would ask me how I was as a greeting, I would give them a literal truthful answer.

P.S. On the subject of armchair diagnosing...my ds is bipolar and was showing textbook signs for several years before he was diagnosed. I sure wish someone had armchair diagnosed him...or even professionally diagnosed him as the idiot therapist he was seeing missed all the textbook symptoms he was showing. I was so relieved when he was finally diagnosed, because I could get him help and treatment and medication.

Well it must be annoying to be told I bet you are really looking forward to something when you are not and she was right that the friend smother doesn't go to her school so she was just being honest.

No, she was being rude. That's not the way to answer a polite question from a stranger.

@SofiaAmes I disagree because having someone be armchair diagnosed as having ASD, for instance, and them actually having ASD happens in the minority of cases. More often than not, said armchair diagnostic is actually completely inaccurate and is used as an excuse of sorts for rude/unusual behaviour.

I know some people are glass half-full types who see the best in everyone and that's great. It really is. In reality though, sometimes, some people are just rude or uninformed and excusing their behaviour through AD does no favours for anyone.

The fact she shows this behaviour with strangers makes me think it is to do with her feeling stressed , shy or not sure how to speak to people

I think this is at the root of it - it is very unusual for shyness just up evaporate entirely so it’s possible it’s a coping mechanism for stressful social interactions.

It’s an interesting thread.
DD doesn’t speak much italian (she’s born and bred in England, just for context). But we spend a lot of time in Italy, part of our family is from there.
DD is very quiet, reserved with people she doesn’t know. She got encouraged to be cheeky and to demand things by our italian family, they think it’s funny. She thinks it’s means to an end. Quite literally, she is well aware that in England people would raise their eyebrows but in Italy that would make adults laugh and think she’s spirited.
She had to navigate the two cultures all her life.
Sometimes she just gave in for a quiet life. When she was little, she found it all to loud and in your face. I watched her behave like a ‘brat’ because it made people laugh (eg nicking a biscuit mid run through the livingroom). And then catching my eye with a ‘I know, mum, but I’ve had hours of ‘have another biccy’, they’ll think I’m stuck up’.
Equally, sometimes she’d just come and curl up in my lap and be rude by italian standards, ignoring questions and teases and asking me to tell them to stop and leave her alone.

The good thing is that now, when she’s nearly an adult, she’s at home in both cultures. She can navigate the ‘I’ll have a coffee’ and the ‘could I please have a coffee, thank you so much’ as well as the dazzling smile and big hugs and the ‘how do you do’.
Takes time though.

The restaurant thing is what I'd really put my foot down on.

The mum telling her how she feels about school is different. Learning how to politely deal with people saying stupid things is an important skill but I wouldn't expect a 6 year old to be any good at it. Some adults would struggle in a equivalent conversation.

You need to nip it in the bud. Your ( the general 'your ' not you as in specifically you op) are a reflection of their parents and you will be thought of by the wider population ( at least here in Britain) as a not very good mum with a rude child. Sorry.

SeaSidePebbles, yes I agree. Navigating two cultures can be hard.

@Eastie77, how good is your Italian and how good is your dd’s Italian?
I’m asking because DH often had issues with the dcs way of speaking because he had a very poor handle on French so misunderstood.
My own dcs also have still some issues in French with the translation of YOU and when to use the Tu or Vous in French. Thanksfully they have a slight English accent, enough for people to know they are not ‘fully’ French so they don’t get offended when they are too casual (aka using Tu instead of Vous).
All that to say that wo a perfect handle of the language, it’s easy to either say think the wrong way or think they’ve said it the wrong way iyswim.

I think the word 'sassy' is similar to 'banter'. Both used to disguise rude behaviour. My partner told me his daughter was 'sassy' no, she was being rude (she's actually become a very lovely young woman now before I get stepmum bashed )

I'd add 'cheeky' to that list, @Northernsoullover!

I agree that navigating between two cultures can be difficult, especially for a child. The Spanish culture is much more direct, for example people will often say 'dame ...' which means give me when we'd usually say 'can I have...' followed by please. It's also normal to say 'quiero ...' which is 'I want', which again we'd say 'I'd like'. When we come to the UK I'm constantly reminding DD
to use her manners etc. The British are very polite in general and when you're part of a culture where people are more direct and less concerned with these social niceties, it is a bit of a minefield with kids.

Some children genuinely would benefit from a smacked backside, they really would. I'm sorry OP but there's outspoken and rude and then there's "omg where the fuck was she dragged up?"

Unclench ffs! What a complete exaggeration.

According to the other thread running at the moment about everything shit about the British, our politeness is a bad thing anyway so kids from other cultures should just be allowed to do what they want, I suppose? Personally, fuck yes, the finger clicking is horrifically rude here, as it would be in other cultures, but it must be hard for a kid to navigate both cultures like that, especially if she's getting mixed messages from one parent. I would, and have, come down like a ton of bricks on ds for doing something similar, and been told off from non-British MIL for it, but stuck to my guns (where MIL comes from, kids are allowed to get away with a lot more, but if you let ds get away with something once, he will remember and his behaviour gets horrific, so he needs to be kept in line).
I guess as an adult, typically you try and "do as the host country does" when abroad, so we personally teach our kids the same - in this country, it's rude to do xyz, but in your other home country, it's ok to do xyz. Luckily in the kids' other country they're very accomodating for children, and see the early years as the years manners are taught. But adults don't get the same get out of jail free card, so it's hard when I slip up sometimes!

I think your vocabulary needs to improve- 'gotten' urghh , shudders.

Are people really that judgemental of 6 year old?

I have a French half to the family - I’m painfully aware when I am over there that I scatter my ‘s’il tu plait’ and ‘merci’s around like confetti compared to the rest of the family and it’s been the source of jokes in the past! DH took some getting used to English manners but he’s got it now after nearly 20 years in the country.
Dd is bilingual and, after a while in France, tends to forget her English manners and needs reminding. She’s 6 as well. She’s also prone to being a bit blunt and speaking rudely at the moment so i can sympathise.
We just keep pulling her up on her rudeness and hopefully she’ll come good in the end. I do think kids with a foot in more than one culture can struggle at times and modelling correct behaviour is key, along with firm but gentle reminders.

My DP is a southern european native - and they are generally taught that English people are obsessed with please and thank you. This generally leads to some funny conversations where he uses harsh english imperatives with lots of pleases and thank yous whilst trying very hard to be polite, such as when speaking to my parents. YOU SIT HERE PLEASE.
I think also you maybe need to put less emphasis on noticing when she behaves a bit rudely and more on when she speaks nicely - she'll be picking up that its a source of tension that can make her want to do it more so she understands the rules of the game. She's going to understand on her own through social interaction how people in England respond when she is that abrupt - and tbh most of my european friends do not behave like it sounds your husband does even in their own countries. You can show her with your own example about decent behaviour.