How do you define alcoholism?

[MariaVonBratt]

Just curious really.

Alcoholism is a touchy topic on MN. There are a lot of people who seem to think anyone who drinks often has a problem and I don't agree but I do think I probably overdo it. I can polish off a bottle wine 3-4 nights a week, sometimes more. I do it because I enjoy it but if there is a reason I can't drink (driving somewhere, busy, unwell) it's not a problem to me. I compare it to eating too much chocolate - it's not good for my heath and I try to diet but I enjoy it so I keep coming back.

In my view addiction is categorised by behaviour and dependence not volume. What do you think?

I am inclined to agree that "dependence" is the key factor but that begs the question "what is dependence?"

Need is the key. If you need a drink. Alcohol is an emotional crutch.

In my view addiction is categorised by behaviour and dependence not volume.

Not every alcoholic drinks every day.
Not every alcoholic drinks to excess.
Not all acoholics have poor behaviour
Not all alcoholics are secret drinkers
Some alcoholics go on 'benders' lasting days or weeks or months and are then dry again until next time

For me it's when I have nights free drinking and it's easy but I will totally look forward to having a drink again, because I have earned it . I don't feel the same way about food at all. I don't reward myself with food at all, I'm hungry, I'll eat.

I suppose i define it as being dependent on something in the sense that your life, feelings, relationships etc are drastically changed for the worse when you can't get whatever it is you depend on?

I can accept my drinking habits aren't necessarily healthy (the same as a smoker probably knows the dangers of smoking) but I don't feel dependent on alcohol because I can go without it easily, it's just something I enjoy.

You say you can go without it easily.

When was the last time you didn't drink 3 or 4 bottles of wine a week?

I used to drink 3-4 bottles of wine a week and I would be extremely surprised if you do not have a some degree of dependency on alcohol. It's a highly addictive substance, more so than nicotine.

Having said that, I do not believe drinking at that level and having a degree of dependency means your an alcoholic. I hate that word and find it very stigmatising. It's certainly not a term I can relate to.

In my case, I accepted I had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol; I used it to destress from work and 'relax' when I struggled as a working mum. I went alcohol free 18 months ago and it's been completely transformation for my physical and mental wellbeing.

I don't know if you are asking these questions because you think you need to cut down or stop?

I stopped drinking when I realised instead of being a treat, opening a bottle an evening was a habit.

Just stopped. My sleep, skin and confidence has improved.

I'm just curious really but yeah I do think I ought to cut down from a health perspective. But I also need to exercise more and cut down on carbs which I seem to find equally difficult.

It's been a long time since I haven't drunk 3-4 a week but when I can't or don't it doesn't bother me or play on my mind. I guess it's become habitual but not a 'need'.

Right OP, there's the challenge. It's Tuesday 6 August. Come back on Tuesday 3 September and tell us you've done a whole month without a glass of wine.

I have just given up smoking, going into week 4 and I feel amazing, not physically but mentally as I have no cravings at all, not vaping either. I'm not sure I could do the same with drink though as its such a massive lifestyle change, almost everything celebratory revolves around alcohol, as well as a total relaxation tool.
Also on MN you do tend to get the odd thread about people being treated as odd for not drinking and you are seen as antisocial and smug - the polar opposite of smoking.

It's surprising how many of my female friends drink wine every night. This doesn't get mentioned until they decide to do dry January and are climbing the walls by day 10. Are they alcoholics? Probably not, but they do have a dependency on that glass of wine.

I don't drink at home ever, but if I go out with the intention of having a couple of drinks I know it'll go wrong once I get the taste for it. Then by midnight I'll be knocking back the shots with the best of them. I do then suddenly get bored about 1am and decide its enough and I'm going home.

I have male friends who go to the pub every single night and have a few drinks and then go home, and I think they're less dependant on the alcohol than my female friends who are knocking back the wine at home.

If someone can't go a month without alcohol, I think they have a problem.

This is the thing - cutting out drinking altogether would be a big lifestyle change. I look forward to my Friday night bottle of wine and takeaway. It's a treat at the end of a busy working week. But I think if I could cut down and see is as a weekend treat rather than something normal every night.

I do think social views around drinking have changed. It used to be viewed as cool but now it's quite trendy (even within young people) to be sober and have a more mindful and healthy lifestyle.

I can go without it easily

Prove it then. Go without it for a month.

Not saying cutting it out altogether forever. Just prove to yourself that you genuinely can go without it easily. If you can't, then you know you have a problem. If you can, then just introduce it back on a limited basis on a Friday night.

Could you just have one drink? Or just drink half a bottle of wine and put the rest away for another day? Do you always drink the whole bottle? There is a very wide spectrum of people with dependency on alcohol. There is a stereotypical view of an alcoholic who drinks a bottle of vodka a day and starts drinking before 10am, but there are many people who identify as alcoholics who have different patterns of drinking. There is a useful checklist on the AA website which can help you decide whether your drinking is a problem.
www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/About-AA/Newcomers/Is-AA-for-you?

I have a very dear relative whom is a binge drinker and an alcoholic. She would deny it, be furious and indignant at any suggestions of her being an alcoholic but everyone knows the truth.

The fact that you can't spend as little as one week without the habitual bottle of wine would indicate you have a pattern emerging and signals a dependency. A big issue for some addicts is having to change their social habits and avoiding the trigger points and people from that lifestyle. Deep down you know but you don't want to change your habits. You tell yourself alcohol is your reward after a long week but you are drinking throughout the week. What do you think would happen if you gave up alcohol for a month? How long would you be able to go without?

I wouldn't have said I was an alcoholic. I don't like the term much either. I knew I was drinking too much so I decided to stop only to find I couldn't. I'd drink most nights and not a huge amount (unless I went out) but stopping was bloody difficult.
I knew then I was dependent. I read a book called alcohol Explained by William Porter which really opened my eyes. Another good read is Jason Vale kick the drink easily.
I don't drink at all now and my life isn't perfect but its so much better. I am now of the thinking that anyone who drinks any alcohol at all has a dependency. You don't need it! This may make me sound smug but I don't really care.

There is definitely a perception of alcoholism being associated with someone homeless swigging cider out of a bottle at 9am and I agree that there are varying levels, it's not always black and white. I would struggle to give it up just like I struggle to give up other things I enjoy. It's hard to stop doing things you like. And I guess when it's not causing any obvious problems for you (I still get up and go to work everyday, look after my kids pets and dp, my house is clean and tidy etc) you wonder what harm you're really doing.

Perhaps some people who have stopped altogether could explain the ways they have felt so much better after quitting?

If you want to cut down carbs and exercise more, it's really interlinked.

If you are drinking a lot, you're not sleeping properly. You're then more likely to make bad food choices and later on in the day will prioritise drinking over exercise.

After stopping drinking, I was genuinely amazed how much more energy I had and have since built in two weekly evening exercise classes I never would have done whilst drinking.

I'd really recommend having a look at 'The Unexpected Joy of Being Sober' (Catherine Gary) or 'This Naked Mind' (Annie Grace). Either reading or audiobook.

After reading Catherine's book she suggested trying 90 days off. I just couldn't mentally commit to that at first, so did 30 days at first. The benefits came thick and fast, so then went to 60 and 90 then carried on.

Really, give 30 days a go and see how you feel. You're most likely to find complete abstinence easier than 'cutting down', as there is always an excuse why tonight you're having a drink or two.

@MariaVonBratt Just seen your last post re: benefits:

No headaches in the morning
Sleep better
Way more energy
Better mood in general
Less anxiety
Much better skin
Very thin hair has grown back significantly, with lots of new hair growth
Not lethargic drinking so can read books on an evening and exercise
Never need to use a taxi again
Lost weight

Those are a few to begin with....!

If it’s not a problem to give it up, or drink only one night a week, then why don’t you just do that ?

Several posters have suggested that and you have ignored them.

Alcohol dependence is a big problem in our society, not just on MN. And no one over the age of 15 actually believes it’s all about “ homeless people swigging cider “. I think we are all smarter than that and I suspect you are too.

This “ I haven’t got a problem, I just enjoy a drink and besides I’m middle class “ doesn’t fool anyone.

And I guess when it's not causing any obvious problems for you (I still get up and go to work everyday, look after my kids pets and dp, my house is clean and tidy etc) you wonder what harm you're really doing

Here’s the risks of drinking more that 14 units a week. You are drinking 2-3 times that much.

www.nhs.uk/live-well/alcohol-support/the-risks-of-drinking-too-much/

Calculate your risk here

alcoholchange.org.uk/alcohol-facts/interactive-tools/unit-calculator

And as an aside, that 2,700 calories a week won’t be helping your weight.

Maybe you're dependent, maybe you're not. But if you're not, then why drink amounts that you know full well are very bad for your health? If you really think the difference in enjoyment levels between 14 units a week and the amount you are drinking are worth the pretty inevitable health consequences, that would suggest you're more hooked than you might think. I used to drink quite a lot (not as much as you on a regular basis though). I now drink well under the recommended limit, often only a couple of units a week. I feel better for it, mentally and physically.

Recently found out that a close friend is an alcoholic which made me examine my own relationship with alcohol.
There may be a difference between an, 'alcoholic,' and, 'dependent,' but not sure it makes a difference.
For me, what was unhealthy was the habitual drinking; the wine while making dinner, the glass after the kids went to bed, the g&t on a Friday night, so I stopped for several months.

My father was an alcoholic; his GP described him as a habitual alcoholic rather than a dependent alcoholic.

While he was at home he’d pour his first drink at 9am and have a glass on the go pretty much all day. He could get through 1-3L spirit of his choice a week. However, when he was at anyone else’s house, he could go days without any alcohol and not suffer any symptoms of alcohol withdrawal.

That was the reason the GP described it as he did - he drank out of habit and pleasure (and, occasionally, bloody mindedness - especially if someone commented on his drinking!!) rather than a physical need for alcohol in his system.

Prior to my pregnancy, my husband and I could easily drink a bottle of wine a night between us and up to 3 bottles of Prosecco on our regular weekly night out. Now it’s an occasional glass of wine on my behalf and he’ll have the rest of the bottle over a couple of nights.

Benefits?
Lower resting heart rate.
Palpitations have gone.
I sleep much better
More energy
Clearer skin and less pronounced wrinkles.
I've lost 8lbs
I'm exercising more. The best thing is that the anxiety I have suffered with for years has reduced massively.