housework and men expectations

[Belfield]

This is probably a really boring topic for most. I am just wondering how much housework men do in your lives if you both work FT. I work longer hours than my DH but do the majority of the housework. He thinks he does loads but imo he doesn't. I read before somewhere that men think they do way more than they actually do. When I was in a houseshare before we used to do a rota so that everyone did their fair share. I was thinking of introducing this but maybe it is a bit strange? Has anyone done this before. I don't think my DH would be against it. Also do you have a cleaner? We are thinking of getting one but my DH refuses to have a cleaner in the house unless one of us are there when the cleaner is whereas I would rather they were left in peace and were there when we were both in work. Love to hear any experiences, particularly when both work FT. Thanks

Urgh, I had one of these.

Refused to help me with housework, refused to 'allow me' to hire (and pay) for a cleaner because he 'didn't want a stranger going through our stuff'.

One in a very long list of reasons why he's now an ex. See if a rota helps... don't give him an option. Just tell him it's happening.

Never marry a man that has not lived on his own. I moved into my first property aged 21. Before that my mum did everything for me (cleaning, washing, ironing cooking). From the day I picked up the keys I had to start doing it for myself. Last marriage I was in I cooked the evening meals, did the food shopping, did the ironing, bathed the kids....

What does your dh do atm....?

Things that might help:

1. If you work the same hours, then both work on chores at the same time, eg 'let' s tidy up together', 'one of us can cook whilst the other puts out the laundry. Which would you rather do?' The crucial thing here is not to crumble and do extra. If he doesn't want to do chores this evening, then you don't either.
2. If you aren't around at the same time so 1 won' t work, divide out whole areas of responsibility. 'shopping and cooking' (together, so that it includes the planning as well) is actually quite a good one to hand over, because it has an immediate impact so doesn't just slide.
3. For the 'keeping on top of things' tasks, which are more about mindspace than chunks of work (eg bills, childcare etc) explicitly agree who is responsible for what

I work pt husband ft and we have a cleaner - I hate it when I’m in when she’s here, makes me feel so uncomfortable! Get some recommendations from people you know, hopefully that will solve the trust issue. If not he’ll have to arrange to be in at the same time each week while she’s here.

We do 50/50 on average. Some weeks I do more than him, other weeks he does more than me. When I'm on school holidays I do the lion's share because I think the person who is off should do more (but know this is unpopular to say on MN).

He doesn't "help" with the house and I get annoyed when family talk about how lucky I am to have a man who helps out. He does his fair share as an adult in the household.

50/50, always been that way since I went back to work. Before that it was 75/25.

@kungfupanda67 thanks. even if it is a cleaner we know he still insists that someone is there. I will contact cleaners and ask for availability for when he is there.

@hadthesnip2 DH cooks his own meals that he brings to work and DS will eat some of this too. He collects DS from afterschool, does homework sometimes, gives DS a meal I have pre-prepared or one of his meals. He irons his own shirts only. He washes clothes (usually his own). he doesn't fold away or iron them (expect his shirts). He washes dishes. he never cooks family meals at weekends. Hoovers sometimes. Never washes the floor, never cleans the bathroom. He never puts our DS to bed, doesn't give bathes very often. Doesn't make snacks for DS. DS always goes to me for everything so I just do it rather than ask my DH to do it. I don't mind this though. I have to ask DH to do things and he responds with "what are you doing" or "are you tired". He will do stuff but I get the impression he thinks he is doing me a favour. he thinks he is great

@LolaSmiles My DH family are always telling me how lucky I am aswell even though he does less than 50%. He grew up with his mother doing everything.

Both work ft here. We have a cleaner once a week for 2 hours (honestly would love to have her more but she only wants PT hours and is fully booked otherwise). She comes when we are at work. DH probably does more than me - especially at the moment as I'm pregnant so have had morning sickness / a lot more tired/ struggling in the heat. I guess I do more of the daily humdrum (pick ups and drop offs for DS, usually whack something on for dinner when I get in, a quick dishwasher unstack and reload) because I finish work earlier. DH probably tackles more of the big stuff that piles up - getting laundry done at the weekend, hoovering, mowing the lawn, doing a proper clean of the kitchen, sorting the recycling / bins. I think it massively helps that we both have similar standards on how tidy the house needs to be (we are not hugely fussy tbh as long as everyone has clean clothes and the kitchen and bathroom are decent). We also work together e.g. if one of us says "right this place is a tip, we need to clean!" then we both pitch in and try and get toddler DS to help too (he has his own mini dyson and bubble lawn mower!). I think this massively helps to stop resentment or one person doing more than the other. A good rule of thumb I often read on here is that there should be equal down-time for both parties and I reckon we have that balance about right.

When we both worked FT we were too tired to do much and it just stacked up. We were supposed to go equals but most of it as left to me. Years later, and kids later, we just work in silent tandem now and it all he done equally when he's home and after he's rested, and I do it when he's away.

I've had to do this before 🙄 turns out my ex was a big man-child and it still didnt make any sodding difference.

I wrote a list with 2columns. My name at the top of one column and his name at the top of the other.

Then I filled the column with what he did around the house and what I did.

It was clear who was doing majority of the donkey work. He even accepted it. It changed for about a week and then resumed as normal.

In the end I rebelled and stopped doing it.

50/50! Anything else is unfair when you both work FT.

Agree jobs up front. E.g - my husband LOVES cooking and is much better at it than I, so he does all the cooking, washing up, meal planning, alot of the shopping. I am in charge of money, bank accounts and bills, laundry etc. Agree what jobs you prefer and split them and always try and do them together - we have a sunday morning housework blitz where we put some music on and power through the house.

It sounds like he is the product of an environment when the woman of the house is a nanny, maid and housekeeper.

If they say it again I'd be inclined to call then out on it saying 'lucky? I think the standard is 50/50 as the norm and we aren't quite there yet'

In my relationship with dh a rota wouldn't work as our schedules are too inconsistent. However we are both of the mindset that er just do what we see needs dojng eg if one of us walks into the kitchen and there is washing up on the side, that person does it. If one of us adds an item to the laundry pile that roughly makes up a load, that person puts it on etc

It all depends on commute time. Eg if one works locally 9-5 with a 10 minute walk and the other does the same hours with a 90 min drive each way, then they are going to have 3 hours less a day. Who ever is home more picks up the slack.

We have a rota. Works well with a household of teenagers and a dh who works fulltime I used to work shift patterns but have gone back to studying. We also have a kitchen day each where we clean up after dinner and set days to do cooking.

There is still stuff that is not o the list. Dh tried to get out of it as "he was doing gardening) so I added the gardening to the rota and in summer half we each have to di 1 garden chore. As I said at the time the indoor chores doesn't diminish because outdoor ones are added.

Frankly the rota was the best thing we ever did.

I forgot to say we each have to do 2 each minimum and kids can earn money to do more about £30 a week for extra chores. If they don't dh and I split them.

"Last marriage I was in I cooked the evening meals, did the food shopping, did the ironing, bathed the kids...." Better than many but still leaves an awful lot of other chores/mental load. That this IS better than most is the problem, means you probably think you did "loads" when in reality you probably still did much less than your wife.

My ex would say he did "loads" because he did his own ironing (but never mine or dds), the dishes nightly (unless he 'cooked' 1-2 nights a week - never anything particularly arduous, pasta n sauce, frozen in oven type stuff) and wiped worktops down (which he described as "cleaning the kitchen" no its NOTE cleaning the kitchen unless you're moving items to clean worktops thoroughly, cleaning the sink, fridge, freezer and sweeping & mopping the floor), we did the weekly shop together (but he never wrote a shopping list, paid attention to prices or really had much idea of what we needed to buy regularly unless it were specific items he liked) hoovered 2-3 times a week (but never thoroughly/under furniture/moving stuff to hoover that area), did bath n bed with dd on turnabout (but NEVER took toys out and rinsed bath out or put her dirty clothes & towel in laundry), put the bins out weekly (by which literally just wheeling it to the kerb! Not taking the actual rubbish out to the bin which I did daily at that point, NOR bringing the emptied bin back in), mowing the lawn (which he'd call "doing the garden" but it really was a 1 hour job max weekly in summer) but he never or very rarely:

Did general tidying/putting things away
Dusted or polished ANYTHING
Cleaned Windows or glass panels on doors
Laundry (he was a bloody liability if he went near washing machine! But he also NEVER hung/dried laundry either not collected it in if hung)
Cleaned the bathroom let alone the toilet (even if he'd done a monumental stinky shit!)
Made or changed beds
Cleaned up spillages he made then and there (this used to drive me nuts as it's much easier to clean up eg ketchup while it's still wet than try to scrub it off a worktop after its dried on!)
Cleaned out expired items from fridge (was actually a bigger for putting empty or damn near empty juice/milk containers back in fridge rather than rinse & recycle!),
Clean fridge or freezer
ANY household admin - I dealt with all the bills, insurances, bank account, organising not/service for car (even before I could drive myself!) medical appointments (not just dd and I, I used to make his sometimes too as he was "too busy" but would eg be constantly moaning about a toothache!)

So yea I'm VERY sceptical of men (or their wives/partners) who claim they do a reasonable or equal amount.

Many studies which show that men frequently over estimate how much they do and under estimate what needs done and how long certain chores take.

"He thinks he does loads" because he is comparing how much he does to how much other men he knows do and NOT to how much YOU do!

If you're working longer hours he really should be doing more than you.

I failed obviously in addressing this issue (much younger and less assertive then).

All I can think to suggest is write down everything that needs doing and divide them between with him taking on a few more than you OR take on more time consuming jobs - because he has more time to do them!

That would be fair imo.

"A good rule of thumb I often read on here is that there should be equal down-time for both parties" I'd agree with that

I now live with adult dd and it's a challenge as - again - she THINKS she does "loads" because she compares herself to her mollycoddled friends who at 18/19 their mothers are still getting their drinks and snacks for them and they're not expected to do ANY housework. Luckily I have her bff and family to refer to (her mum and I similar outlook, plus they have a big family, loads of pets and both parents work full time so everyone HAS to pitch in)

The very best thing is to find an ex-boarder, preferably with military service, whose mothers beat them like gongs. Your house will be immaculate, your meals delicious and copious, and the admin will be seamless.

Your relationship won't be much fun, and he'll have some very odd views about children, but swings and roundabouts.

DP is ex army, he's not odd.

He does iron beautifully though

Both work full time. I have a long commute of three hours a day. No cleaner. DH does more than me. He does all the shopping and cooking, just as an example. I do wonder if sometimes people have mismatched expectations. I can’t say that polishing anything or cleaning windows features on my to-do list.

Or find a grown up. Who understands the pixies don't clean. Now I have to go and tell DH he's wonderful again dammit. And he will say, "is some man being a dickhead on Mumsnet?"

I do most of the child care, admin, social stuff and medical/dental. He does all most of the cleaning. Whomever cooks doesn't wash up.

D'you know, I was at a friend's house the other day and her husband came home early from work. She was clearing up from making biscuits. He immediately put the kettle on and offered tea to both of us. Then the washing machine beeped and he emptied it without breaking stride, and hung it up on the airer.
It was so clearly natural and normal.
As a result, I am thinking quite seriously about why I'm so resentful and unhappy with DH. I wished so much in that moment to have a life partner who just took on his share of the daily load without having to be asked, reminded, nagged, given a list, or given praise like a good doggy.
It's such a trivial but also enormous thing.

Your example about your friend’s DH is completely normal to me. It is what my DH would do immediately.

Pre DC I used to be quite slovenly so we would let the housework build up then we'd do a major clean every few weekends.
Post DC when both working FT we got a cleaner.
My DH took out a loyalty card at the local dry cleaners for all his shirts so he didn't need to wash and iron them. This freed him up to do other chores - he's good at cooking, general cleaning and internet food shopping. We have a dishwasher as he has a major problem with washing up but doesn't mind loading and unloading it so ok.

Bedtimes are split equally, I normally do baths during the week but I don't mind.
I'd say we're pretty equal.
Who is ironing and folding away your DHs clothes ? If it's you just stop doing it. When he asks if you're tired jut reply, yes I'm really tired I've washed, cleaned, cooked etc. now it's your turn to do the bathroom...

My DH does loads. More likely to vacuum than I am. Does more tidying and loads of DIY. He is an only child of a mother with very strong feminist views. He was cadets so is good at ironing and polishing shoes. I couldn't live with someone lazy who didn't do their share.

I'm PT but upping my hours so we will be getting a cleaner. DH is quite happy with that. Why wouldn't he be?