housework and men expectations

[Belfield]

This is probably a really boring topic for most. I am just wondering how much housework men do in your lives if you both work FT. I work longer hours than my DH but do the majority of the housework. He thinks he does loads but imo he doesn't. I read before somewhere that men think they do way more than they actually do. When I was in a houseshare before we used to do a rota so that everyone did their fair share. I was thinking of introducing this but maybe it is a bit strange? Has anyone done this before. I don't think my DH would be against it. Also do you have a cleaner? We are thinking of getting one but my DH refuses to have a cleaner in the house unless one of us are there when the cleaner is whereas I would rather they were left in peace and were there when we were both in work. Love to hear any experiences, particularly when both work FT. Thanks

"I really, really hope this is a generational thing and dying out." Actually as myself and another particular mner (who's married to an older man) often note on these threads the reverse is true! The younger generations generally are/are getting lazier!

Yes older generations tended to divide labour along gender lines BUT the overall amount of labour was more evenly divided. (The "tell him it's no longer the '50's" argument that's often referred to on such threads)

My ex's dad is also older than his mum, he's in his late 80's now, my dad (not the most enlightened guy) and my granda's may have stuck to "mens jobs" BUT those men DID more than I would say men aged 45-50 now, and CERTAINLY the 30 something men now are SHOCKINGLY lazy!

NOT ONLY do they not do "women's work" they don't even do "mens work"!

My dad and granda's maybe didn't do things like dishes, but

they put the rubbish out to the outdoor bin daily and put a new bag in the indoor bin

they did any "heavy" work like

hoovering (this one surprised me until during the discussion about this my gran challenged me to use her old Hoover - weighed a bloody ton!)

carrying shopping

carrying laundry out to line and back again,

putting stuff away in lofts/on top of cupboards

DIY & minor repairs (far too expensive then to "get a man in" plus a point of pride for most, certainly working class men, to be able to do most if not all simple DIY themselves - my ex couldn't even change a fuse in a plug! I had to show him how! He thought a lamp of ours was broken and should be thrown out JUST because it needed a new fuse), my memories are that there was SOMETHING needed doing most days, from hanging a new picture to rewiring an appliance.

painting and decorating (which seemed to be constant for my family, soon as one room finished the one that had last been decorated longest ago was then redecorated)

fixing broken toys too, fixing bikes, building go-carts & "dens" for us kids

Polishing shoes - and doing it properly! My dad, granda's and exs dad ALL being military men would have shoes mirror like! Certainly in my house that was dads "Sunday afternoon with the radio on" job - polishing 5 pairs of shoes, his and mums work ones and our school ones.

cleaning windows and other glass

cleaning out guttering and drains

Maintaining, repairing & cleaning the family car if they had one - older cars, this was far more possible for most tasks that needed maintenance/repair, modern cars there are several things which due to being linked to integrated electronics can only be done by a mechanic with the right equipment now. My ex using the automated car wash attracted much derision from his and my fathers and my granda that was still alive while I was with him! They outright called him lazy for that. Weekly cleaning the car thoroughly including interiors (which admittedly mostly seemed to be us kids getting told off for leaving boiled sweets in stupid places 😂), I'd say at least monthly doing oil, tyre and antifreeze and water checks, any minor repairs as needed - which as they couldn't afford new cars was fairly frequent.

Maintaining the lawn/garden and doing actual gardening - all the older men (and the women actually) I'm referencing came from really properly poor backgrounds, they knew how to forage and when they were fortunate enough to have gardens, generally in their own middle age, they all grew fruit and veg at least partly to keep family costs down - my ex would not have the first clue where to start with that! Even his face when I picked a handful of berries off a bramble bush and ate them, early on in our relationship was an absolute picture! 😂 "You can't do that!" "Why not?" "Don't they belong to someone else? How do you know they're not poisonous?" and again when we moved to a house and I found in the garden the previous tenants had planted herbs - he waited til I ate the dish I used them in to see if I'd - I dunno - start foaming at the mouth or something? 😂

Maybe they didn't do much with babies/toddlers (although again my experience is its a myth that men in older generations didn't do night wakings, nappy changing, feeding - all the men of those generations I know did, maybe not to the same level as the women but they did do them) but they certainly spent time with older children, reading, doing homework, teaching us to ride bikes, swim, make rope swings, play ball games, and also doing the disciplining (if we'd been really naughty - "wait till your father gets home"), went to parents evenings (my ex has never been to ONE despite having 6 DC!)

They also did the bulk of the financial management and household admin, like banking, paying bills, making sure things like mot and insurance were up to date. In consultation with the women (on the day to day finances at least, money was very tight) but they took the main responsibility for this.

The only slightly less traditional one those men did was they did the bulk of the ironing/pressing- again being military men they were very good at this, but cue MANY arguments because they'd put bloody creases in our jeans which of course was DEEPLY uncool 😂

One thing I've noticed younger men are ESPECIALLY bad at that those older men never did/do is plain tidying up after their own arses! Those older men would/would have considered it the height of disrespect to their wives to expect them to put their skiddy undies or set used towels in the laundry basket! Or to put away THEIR tools/equipment after doing a repair job. They tidied up after themselves because they were capable grown ass men!

So they didn't do NOTHING apart from their paid jobs, which I see/hear/read of far too many of the younger men doing now.

I think as a society we need to stop accepting that just because many of the "traditional" mens jobs are no longer done by householders that DOESN'T mean men should be getting away with sod all!

Professorofperspective - yea the doing a half arsed job is a pisstake isn't it?

My auld Da is nearly 70, he's been a widower for 2 + years and he's always done all of the cooking (when Mum was alive too), most of the washing and always did the dishes. Mum was a SAHM and did the rest. I still do his ironing as he can't iron to save his life but then I offered and it's not expected of me.

We both work full-time. We have a cleaner and she has been an absolute God send. She has a set of keys and works her magic and leaves. We’re at work when she comes over and we get home to an immaculately clean house.

Any left over chores dishes, laundry etc we split 50/50 unless one of us is feeling particularly down that day or is unwell then the other one picks up the slack.

Over time with DP the rota has changed, seemingly without us talking about it. I cant complain because currently I have the better deal.
I do laundry, cooking, clean the kitchen and bathroom, we share the weekly shopping trip. he does everything else.
I am pt he is ft.
Previously we lived in my house and most stuff was left to me obviously. But when we moved into his house I thought bugger that. So he gets to do all the bills, car stuff, garden, cleaning the other rooms, calendar stuff, sorts his own dental and dr appointments, clean the windows, organises shed and garage, empties bins/puts bins out, decorates as required, fixes stuff when needed, etc etc.
His mother gave me a calendar a few years ago, she had put all his family birthdays and other important dates in it. I smiled sweetly and gave it to him. She now just gives him the calendar.

"I can’t say that polishing anything or cleaning windows features on my to-do list." Not ever?!!. No, not really. What sort of things do you polish? I can’t think of any. Windows might get cleaned once a year perhaps.

You only clean your windows once a year?!

Polishing - do you have no wooden furniture? Doors?

I’m a sahm doing the majority of housework but bear with me for a moment

We started off on a fairly equal footing, pre dc, both working and both on our best early-relationship behaviour. Then dc arrived, recession hit my career hard and I became a sahm unexpectedly, and dc had some sn. I had a massive crisis of self worth and in an effort to bolster my self esteem tried to take on all the house and home stuff. I was getting up before 6 with the baby, staying up til 10 to catch up on housework and doing all the night feeds with a baby who didn’t sleep much.

For me, realizing that I was entitled to equal leisure time was key. Dh was working longer hours in a family business that was treading water in the recession, and dealing with all the financial stress that entailed. He worked hard, then got home and relaxed in front of the tv.

Once I started giving myself permission to relax too, I started to see that I was working hard during our shared working hours. I wasn’t good at my job. I wasn’t efficient and mostly it felt like trying to hold back the tide, but I wasn’t being lazy. At the end of the working day there was still more to be done but I stopped seeing it as solely my responsibility.

I also cultivated the art of saying things out loud, and honestly I think this is a crucial relationship skill to learn. I say it if I’m leaving the dishes undone because I’m too tired. If he’s going out for an evening I make plans for my evening out. If I’ve made the bathroom shine and want him to acknowledge it I say so. If he’s working on his hobby leaving me to put the dc to bed, I point it out, and expect a similar opportunity. If I’m feeling tired or lazy and he’s working on something I acknowledge that. It sounds horribly passive aggressive but it’s actually the opposite. These aren’t little digs or snarky comments. Because I name what happens, he sees it and because he genuinely sees us as equals, he does his share, and is very considerate.

During holidays and weekends we both pitch in to do what needs doing. During the working week I do most of the house and childcare stuff but if there’s still stuff to be done in the evenings or weekends, the responsibility is shared.

I think men, on the whole, are better at looking after themselves, and maybe inclined to assume that if they are ok, then you’re ok too. I think from dh’s point of view if he’s sitting watching tv and I’m running about doing jobs, he assumes I must be happy to do that and not feel like sitting down. And if I’m not complaining then everything must be ok. I can’t really grasp the psychology. I think that there is a tendency to undervalue some jobs e.g. I like reading, I’m passionate about the importance of reading with the dc, therefore reading bedtime stories with the dc must be a pleasure rather than a chore (it’s both).

It bothers me that we fell into a 1950s time warp when the dc were small, that he was either willfully or conveniently blind to the imbalance. It bugs me that I still carry the burden for making him aware of the workload. My gran used to say “a man will let you” meaning that there was no limit to what they would leave you doing. I think dh is a genuinely good guy who sees me as his equal but somehow it still falls to me to establish and maintain the boundaries of that equality.

Gave me a chuckle reading this thread.

When I was younger, I used to help my mum do the housework on Friday nights after school - before my dad got home from work. We used to split the jobs and work together. My dad never did housework. Ever. When my mum injured her back and was told she wouldnt walk again, I did more of the housework that she couldnt do (anything involving lifting/hoovering/changing bed sheets etc.)

Fast forward to today and I work full time - my wife stays at home and looks after our daughter. My wife does laundry and will do the odd job such as the dishwasher, occasionally hoover. But everything on a regular basis is done by me. Cooking is normally 5 nights me, 2 nights her. There are cleaning jobs she has literally never done. For example, she has never cleaned our shower in the en suite. Literally ever - and we are talking over 10 years. She asked me the other day if just putting bleach in the toilet was good enough to clean it or if she should use the brush. She decided to mop the floor in the kitchen for the first time and asked me if she just used water of it there was a cleaner for it.

So although Im a dad, I feel your pain! The thing is, my wife would let things get truly disgusting if I didnt clean it and whats more she knows it. She knows if she just leaves something eventually I'll do it but I cant cope with the dirt and mess. Its a challenge because I basically clear up after 2 extra people now (plus myself - still need to do my own stuff).

I tried suggesting a rota but that went down like a lead balloon. Problem is, her mum always did everything for her and she flat out refuses to engage with doing things for herself. So either I do it or we live in filth. I've not been able to find a solution in a decade of trying!

You only clean your windows once a year?!
Polishing - do you have no wooden furniture? Doors?
Yes, once a year for windows maybe. It’s a huge job. You need to get ladders out. They are tall windows and there are about 16 of them. I don’t have time to do stuff like that, and nor do we care. I’ve never seen my neighbours cleaning windows so I can’t be the only one with this level of slatternliness. Why would anyone polish a door? Mine are painted anyway. I do have some wooden furniture but it’s either painted or antique and mustn’t be polished. Some bare wood furniture gets waxed once a year.

@Jamarcus I probably shouldn't have included men in the thread title as it presumes it is all women that do the work. it can work the other way aswell! There seems to be a theme though that if you do everything for your children, when they grow up they just expect it to be done by someone else. I should get my DS to help more around the house but he expects payment for everything, which is another issue!

I should get my DS to help more around the house but he expects payment for everything, which is another issue!

Bloody hell, you need to nip that in the bud.

The trouble with so many parents is that they don't raise their children to understand that keeping a house clean and tidy is a normal everyday thing that everyone does. Instead they teach them that's its a horrible chore which everyone hates and should try to avoid doing. Completely the wrong way round.

When my children were young they joined in with loads of housework. When I was at home with them we did it together and when their dad was home too we all pitched in.

This meant that the jobs all got done in less that half the time it would take one person and freed up time for us all to do something else together like play a board game or go to the park or go swimming, or for each of us to have some down time following our own interests.

Jobs that very young children can do - even at 2 years - wipe skirting with a damp cloth, put pre-sorted clothes into a washing machine, mop floors, pair socks, take pans out of cupboards and put them back in one by one after you've wiped it, etc. Children are usually very interested in these activities, they are learning, they are occupied and they are supervised.

When they are older they can do so much more. My ds and dd could both do everything I could do, except drive a car, by the age of 12 and most of it by the age of 10. They can garden, wash cars, cook, shop for groceries, etc. and it gives them a great sense of pride and high self esteem to be able to do so much for themselves.

It's not a bad thing, it's not bad for them or ruining their childhood, it's actually the opposite. It makes they feel capable and confident as a valued member of their family and this all helps when they grow up and have to apply for jobs, manage budgets, care for themselves and, yes run a household of their own.

Try it. Whack some music on, be upbeat and jolly, and get the whole household to spring into action for just 20 minutes. Take a room each, take a task each, make it a race or whatever. Don't expect them to do it perfectly the first time, let them learn, let it become a normal part of life for them.

From a lot of posts on here I think often it is mismatch in what parties think needs done. Someone yesterday was talking about hoovering every day. Zorofloraing everything in sight seems normal. Polishing doors is a new one on me but certainly not on my to do list. And as for the volume of washing some households do...

Man here, i'd say I do a little less housework than my partner (but definitely not manchild level stuff). We have a cleaner as both work FT, I do probably 80% of the shopping and cooking and about half the tidying, although i'm less good at tending the balcony plants, doing ongoing cleaning as it arises (our cleaner comes every fortnight so some cleaning is needed in the meantime), and deeper cleaning tasks like dusting. Where I tend to fall down the most is on admin, but then we're in Germany and my partner is German (and i'm not) so its often much easier for her to do these tasks anyway.

I'd say the general consensus that men with mothers who did everything tend to be the worst isn't 100% correct...I tend to think the problem is that most men are much more tolerant of dirt than most women and therefore are much less bothered by mess, so feel much less compelled to act. I guess the key is to find a man with a very low mess tolerance.

Another sort-of related comment, i'm always curious as to why men seem to mostly end up with certain chores? My GF is probably not the worst in this regard - for example she loves assembling flat-pack furniture and doing basic DIY, although even then, she absolutely hates and will not do any of emptying the bins, cleaning the toilet, inflating bike tires (or any other form of bike maintenance even though she cycles to work most days), or, bizarrely, collecting takeaway food (we live within walking/cycling distance of several takeaways so its easiest just to go there than have it delivered). i'm fine with doing all and any of these tasks, and I realize this is a slightly tangential comment, but can anyone enlighten me here?

You do less than her. Why would she do your tasks?