housework and men expectations

[Belfield]

This is probably a really boring topic for most. I am just wondering how much housework men do in your lives if you both work FT. I work longer hours than my DH but do the majority of the housework. He thinks he does loads but imo he doesn't. I read before somewhere that men think they do way more than they actually do. When I was in a houseshare before we used to do a rota so that everyone did their fair share. I was thinking of introducing this but maybe it is a bit strange? Has anyone done this before. I don't think my DH would be against it. Also do you have a cleaner? We are thinking of getting one but my DH refuses to have a cleaner in the house unless one of us are there when the cleaner is whereas I would rather they were left in peace and were there when we were both in work. Love to hear any experiences, particularly when both work FT. Thanks

"The very best thing is to find an ex-boarder, preferably with military service"

That was my ex - military brat like me but his parents took advantage of the boarding subsidies, then straight into army. Excellent at ironing and polishing shoes, master packer come holiday time...

fuck all use at much else!

"I can’t say that polishing anything or cleaning windows features on my to-do list." Not ever?!!

My ex did nothing he was just lazy amongst other things I don’t think he even knew where the washing machine/ hoover/ garden was!

When he left his parting shot was ‘let’s see how well you run a house all by yourself!’
I laughed him out the door

Dh and i share the houshold duties, he does the cooling I do the washing and any cleaning stuff is split between us (We only have 4 rooms so not much1)

We both work fulltime. My commute is much longer but I work from home 2 or 3 days a week. Dh never works from home but has a short commute.

We have a cleaner, she comes once a week for 3.5 hours. She changes the beds and irons as well. We're generally not here when she is but never had any issues with stealing or anything. I use an agency and have had a few different cleaners, always been fine. Think your dh needs to compromise on this op.

My dh does more than me in the house, he organises and sorts out all the laundry. I hang it up when working from home but otherwise he does it all. He tidies up more than me too generally. I do all the cooking and most of the food shopping but I like that so it's fine. Dh usually empties the dishwasher too. I definitely don't time it so it finishes when he comes home....!

Having a cleaner does make a difference though, we don't need to do any actual cleaning ourselves and just keep the place ticking over.

OP the only men that behave like that are the ones that are infantalised by their wives. Unfortunately if you have started off with those expectations it's very hard to change them. All you can do is talk to him about it and tell him from now on you expect him to take turns in covering all the jobs and childcare. Make a rota if it helps.

I only work 15 hours but my dh still cooks
Helps clean if required.

Does garden

I do the most as I work much less but if I worked more I know he would do more no questions.

Kick this man child into touch unless you want a life time of resentment ahead.

We both work FT, once a week we blitz the house together (polish & hoover top to bottom, clean bathrooms, change bed, clean kitchen cupboard fronts, floors, some windows), we both do washing, he cuts the grass, food shop we do together or I do it online, both cook, both generally do a bit of something tidying up wise each day.

DisgracetotheY, I’m still laughing at your phrase “whose mothers beat them like gongs”! I’ve no idea why, but it just gave me hysterics.
I can think of a few entitled misogynist knobs who might have benefited greatly from such an upbringing!

If my DH asked me ‘what was I doing?’ when I asked him to do something for our child he would get a blunt answer.

Have you ever left your DS for a weekend with his dad? If not, why not?

Why are so many mumsnetters with such useless men children? It is a depressingly common theme.

I echo the point that never, ever live with someone unless they have lived (successfully) on their own.

We both work full time but I work from home regularly. He pays the bills, mows the lawn and sorts the kids when I’m travelling (at least twice per month). Sometimes he unloads the dishwasher. I have a fortnightly cleaner but otherwise I make beds, tidy rooms, do all the washing, do children’s meals, cook for myself and him if he’s around, do the food shopping, take kids to medical appointments, basically every other sodding thing. He is non apologetic and thinks I take him for granted. I’m thinking about walking out on him as I have had enough. I love him but that isn’t enough.

^^ what Graphista said. Same here. Now separated from partner.

How can he think doing the washing up is 50/50

Stop putting his washing away and ironing if he starts his own he finishes it

I think DH probably does rather more than me as I just care less. I try and make more of an effort because it bothers him. We both cook, clean, do laundry's, dishwasher etc...
It's not a gender thing, being male does not make you domestically incompetent. You don't have a gender problem you have a misogynistic twat problem. Get reading some feminist literature, understand that there is stupid cultural expectation that the domestic work is for women, understand his families gender role models (who did what in his house growing up and what were the unwritten rules for men and women)....Then get angry and motivated to change things. He'll resist (it's not 'his' job) and you made a relationship therapist to help manage the transition. Ultimately of he really resists then you'll have to figure out if it's a deal breaker or not.... Would be for me btw as I have far too much self respect to be someone's skivy, I'd resent the hell out of the selfish cockwomble

My dh hired a cleaning team to do his share as he works long hours. I thought that was fair

DH would answer that he's "really helpful" around the house...... I'd say if helpful means cleaning windows with a grubby cloth when the entire house needs hoovering, then yes he's helpful. If things need ramming into drawers where you won't see it ie paying your car tax, then yes he's extremely helpful.

I carry most of the mental load and he just does what he is prepared to..... but I've recently stopped doing his ironing and picking his crap up, in fact if he leaves it around for more than a day it gets binned. I tidy/clean because it's important to me, not him. He works around 60 hours to be fair, I work around 34/36.

PeoniesarePink
I hate the words help/helpful with regards to men doing basic adult chores (and parenting). It's has the implications that they're so lovely for lightening your load a little, aren't they good.

Thanks for all the comments. It is food for thought. I work longer hours so should probably do less. I think I will go with the Rota but think it is weird that I have to as I see it more for strangers living together than a family who should be naturally helping each other but will see how it goes. I will add DS to it, as he is eight so will have jobs too. I don't want him to act like his Dad when he gets older!

I don't want him to act like his Dad when he gets older!

Good for you; really happy you added that. Half the trouble here is men being raised by women who do absolutely everything for them, then get married and expect their wife to do the same.

I really, really hope this is a generational thing and dying out. Unfortunately, given some of the attitudes of some of my work colleagues; I fear not. (One in particular boasts of doing 'nothing' at home so he can piss off to the golf course all the time.)

Good luck with the rota.

...wiped worktops down (which he described as "cleaning the kitchen" no its NOT cleaning the kitchen unless you're moving items to clean worktops thoroughly, cleaning the sink, fridge, freezer and sweeping & mopping the floor)

Grrr. This drives me mad!

He thinks he is doing me a favour

This is the crux of the matter really, isn't it? There are two fully-functioning adults in the house - why does it fall to the woman to be the person automatically responsible for all the housework and chores, and to have to 'ask for help'? And then have to show endless gratitude when they finally actually do something.

DH had some unexpected time off this morning, so he asked me what needed doing while I was at work. I told him to use his initiative

My husband does all the 'surface' cleaning and tidying. If it looks presentable when you walk in a room he's happy. To be fair his 'surface' standard is perfectly acceptable.

I'm responsible for the deep cleaning (focused cleaning once a week) and ironing. We share the dishes.

It seems to work well for us and our children see us both in action cleaning.

I'm so lucky. I hate housework and DH hates a dirty house. So he does the cleaning and I do laundry, cooking and shopping. He does his own ironing and the washing up. DS does his own room and laundry.

We both work full time but ds (19) cant hold down a job so he gets the extra jobs, like bins and watering the garden. He's currently at my dad's, helping him build a bungalow

DH works away during the week and tries to line it up with my rest days, as I do 6 on/4 off and he gives me lifts in on my earlies and picks me up on lates. He's a keeper! Took me 3 previous attempts with a cheat/ a loser / a dead one, but I finally got it right.

"When he left his parting shot was ‘let’s see how well you run a house all by yourself!’"

Yea at one point just after having dd we hit a rough patch and my ex tried to give it "you couldn't cope without me and everything I do" I was feeling pretty low at the time and stupidly slightly believed him, then he was sent on deployment - and I learned actually I had a lot LESS to do when he wasn't around! I did say as much to him and it gave me the confidence to say to him he needed to pull his weight PROPERLY when he got back - which to be fair he did, at least better than he had been. STILL wasn't a completely fair division of labour though.

"Why are so many mumsnetters with such useless men children? It is a depressingly common theme." To be fair I think it reflects reality, certainly many of the het couples I know it's STILL ridiculously common for women to do the main bulk of housework, childcare and mental load and when I speak to family/friends about it the men THINK they're wonderful and deserve a Fucking medal if they so much as do the dishes -

Without being asked
Without needing to be told to make sure they HAVE all the dirty dishes to wash
If they dry and put away too

(Most of the people I know - contrary to mn don't have dishwashers and still wash by hand)

When I'm at other people's homes, just hanging out chatting I definitely notice the women tidying, wiping down, fetching drinks/food for young children while the men sit on their arses "having had a hard day at work" - the women also work! Often more strenuous jobs, longer hours than the men. A good few of them the women are in jobs like care assistants and the men in undemanding office jobs and this STILL happens.

I think it's a combination of

1 male entitlement
2 Women's internalised misogyny
3 The women not wanting to confront the men and "start a row"
4 The fact that generally humans are naturally lazy, nobody would do the boring drudge work if they didn't have to but points 1-3 make it much easier for men to opt out

My ex weirdly was NOT raised like this! His dad is a spot on guy who genuinely does loads, probably more than his mum, his mum had a career and worked full time, his dad retired first and at that point very much did the majority of work at home, if ex even joked about "women's work" either/both parents would bollock him! But I think it was the influence of his school (boys only, staff doing all the drudge work) and then going straight into army and living in barracks where he'd only clean and tidy his minging room if there were an inspection due! He was a lazy sod all round, at work too (it was on his reports! Took him AGES to get promotions because he just wouldn't put himself out for ANYONE EVER, his opinion was the people who got promoted ahead of him were arse lickers! They weren't they just weren't lazy and knew how the world - and the army! Worked! Prat!)

He and wife 2 now have another 5 kids and I know she does pretty much everything, more fool her. She's much younger than me but looks older and frankly knackered! What's worse the boys copy dad and expect her to run around after their backsides too!