The good kids and the bad kids

[MonroeM]

Probably a daft title and not sure if in the right section on here (am still a newbie and this site is HUGE with so many areas to post) but bear with me please.

Today I was on a train (not cross country just local line) reading my newspaper and sitting with 3 others in facing seats. All calm and peaceful until 2 little yobs aged approx. 12 came and sat across the aisle. They were wearing filthy trainers and both put their feet on the seats. I flicked one of their trainers with my newspaper and told them to take feet off the seat. Others had noticed this too but were saying nothing.

The cheeky little so and so told me not to touch him and gave me the stare. His mate called out "got a problem?" and I stared back but said nothing. I knew if I reacted it would get worse but it got worse anyway.

They both began flicking paper at me and throwing bits of chewing gum from the packets they had and they were making stupid comments about me. The passengers next to me gave me knowing looks but they didnt want to intervene. I could have gone to the driver's cabin and told him but I was only two short stops away from getting off so stayed where I was.

As I got up to get off they began throwing more stuff at me and some girls began telling them off so I have no idea if they got abuse after I left.

One guy who got off with me asked if I was ok and had a moan about kids like that. I was upset inside but tried not to show it. I am no mousey little old woman.

What I really wanted to do was wring their scrawny little necks but had I touched them I would be the wrong doer.

An hour or so later I was shopping and a young boy called out to ask me something from across the road. I could not hear what he was saying due to the noisy traffic. He came over and explained he was walking his dog with his friend and the dog pooed on the pavement and they had no doggy bag. Did I have a plastic bag or something please? This lad was so polite. I helped out and that was that.

So in one afternoon I met two little s and two aspiring gentlemen any mother would be proud of.

End of my news for tonight.

I flicked one of their trainers with my newspaper and told them to take feet off the seat

The cheeky little so and so told me not to touch him and gave me the stare.

You escalated the poor behaviour.. If you think it's ok to 'flick', which by any other word is touching, assaulting another person, the you are as bad as them.

You could have phoned transport police.
You could have gone to the driver
You could have removed yourself from the situation
But, you chose to create a situation.

You created the situation. Learn from this and do not do it again, their reaction could have been far worse. Don't put yourself in danger.

Don't flick strangers.
They sound unpleasant but its not your place to be flicking anyone.

It is ridiculous that an adult is no longer able to tell off a badly behaved child. It is no wonder that the children are getting out of control. I can’t believe that no other adult stepped in to tell them off for throwing things at you.

I think you were officious and irritating.

It is ridiculous that an adult is no longer able to tell off a badly behaved child

talking to rather thank flicking/assaulting and generally acting like a knob probably would have had the desired effect. Presumably the Op is an adult, and wouldn't walk up to another adult and flick/assault them, so why she thinks it ok to do it to kids is beyond me. She wouldn't have done it to a 17yo in a the middle of a city lest that kid pull knife on her, but 12 yo's are fair game.

They sound like right pricks OP sorry that happened. Who cares it she tapped one with a newspaper ffs? It's just shameful behaviour however you cut it.

. I am no mousey little old woman.

You won't get away with ageist crap like that here OP. I think you'll probably get your arse handed to you on a platter for that remark. Brace yourself.

You don’t go round tapping kids you don’t know with newspapers and ordering them around.

It’s probably not a good idea to do it to kids you DO know.

They weren’t harming her. She just disliked them.

I would have done the same and am sad that no other adult stood up with you, OP. Funny that some 'girls' started telling them off but all the adults were too frightened. Apparently young women are clear when young men need pulling up, but adults will tiptoe around them to avoid being "officious", "ageist" or in some way overreaching.

There is a middle ground between tiptoeing around people and flicking them

I don’t ‘flick’ my own children and I certainly don’t expect some random woman on a train to!

They sound pretty unpleasant but I don't know why you didn't just say 'can you take your feet off the seats please as your shoes are dirty?'. Kids can be thoughtless and they might have just not thought it through. They might have just sheepishly put their feet on the floor and been a bit embarrassed. Flicking them antagonised them and made them determined to fight back.

Of course, they might have been unpleasant anyway, and no matter how politely you approached them you'd have had the same reaction, but you'll never know.

I'm in my 40s and if someone flicked me with a newspaper I'd not be very polite in return...

Sorry it’s no wonder there are so many shitty kids around with the attitudes on here.

Teach them to behave themselves before you inflict their unpleasantness on the rest of us.

If you don't have the balls to follow up on the "flicking" when challenged on it then you should have kept your hands to yourself. Not saying their behaviour was acceptable in any way, but what reaction did you expect?

Leckford, that’s crap.

It’s just treating people with respect. If OP isnt going to treat them with respect, they won’t respond in kind.

If that had been my kid and someone flicked her I would have made it quite clear it was unacceptable.

Only on Mumsnet would flicking a kid's shoe with a newspaper be called "assault"

OP I don't think you handled the situation as well as you could have but equally I don't think that warranted the response you got.

Just put it behind you.

OP, they were little shits and I suspect their parents would make excuses for their behaviour like some previous posters.

FWIW if you'd have 'flicked' my DD I like to think she'd be so embarrassed she'd immediately take her feet off the seat and then move seats! I would not expect her to respond the way these kids did and would be ashamed if she did.

My experience is that the good kids far outweigh the bad kids but like bad hotels, bad meals etc the bad ones are easier to recall.

I don’t think it was assault but I think it was breathtakingly rude and so I’m not really surprised it was met with breathtaking rudeness.

You probably would not have got this reaction if he was alone. Children of this age feel they have something to prove in front of their friends.
My next door neighbour's child is going down this route. I look after him often and hes nice as pie. As soon as hes with his friends it's a different story.
They all thought it would be hilarious to knock all my bins over yesterday and run off laughing.
I went out to pick them up, baby in arms. His parents just watched me pick them up whilst telling me it was him and his friends that had done it. Which I already knew. He probably would not have been told off for this but it's fine with me, I sure wont be looking after the little shit again.

I think that as an adult witnessing poor behaviour from children in a public space, you had every right to address it, but only verbally.

You probably escalated it unnecessarily with the ‘flick’ but that still does not excuse the subsequent behaviour, at all. That sounds really awful.

If the other adults in the same space had backed you up, it would have ended very differently.

You can tell from a lot of the other responses on this thread how reluctant adults in general have become to publicly address poor behaviour, however. Which is hardly surprising, given the alarming statistics on knife crime amongst many other reasons.

Nevertheless, appropriate challenging of poor public behaviour is right and necessary in a healthy society and we aren’t headed anywhere good without it.

They had their feet on the seats and given the hot dry weather this week it is unlikely they would be caked in mud. Of course they should not do it but it would not be something I would get worked up about. You would have appeared nit picky and made a situation out of nothing. Seems like you judged them before they even sat down to be honest. The behaviour which followed of course was totally unacceptable but you chose to ignore that which makes no sense given the fuss to start with. You had no right to touch them with the newspaper in the manner that you did. You presumably had to reach across the aisle to do so. Imagine if a fellow passenger flicked you with their newspaper and asked you to move your bag off the seat, I don't think you would be very happy about it. Boys were out of order but you picked a fight so can't take the moral high ground.

The days when any member of the public could tell off children are long gone. Even teachers find it hard enough to "discipline" children without fear of reprisals from the parents, or even the children themselves.

If only it was the done thing nowadays to tell off teenagers, in public; and if you were to do so, to have the support of everyone around you. (I remember cringing horribly at the age of nine when my mum told off a gang of rowdy teenagers on a train! They were so shocked they did quieten down.) The world would be a nicer place.

Unfortunately, these days it is extremely risky challenging someone in public, and often the offenders know this. There's a real danger now that teenagers are carrying knives; there are rarely staff or police around for backup; and indeed it is possible for them to cry "assault" for the smallest thing. There was that much-publicised case a few years ago when someone asked a teenager to be quiet in the cinema; he then sought her out afterwards in a cafe, and assaulted her in a particularly nasty way. (He should have got a much longer prison sentence!)

Also the person who asked someone on a station platform to stop smoking, and he pushed her on to the track. If I had my way he'd have had a twenty year prison sentence, but it took a very long time to track him down, and there were lots of cries of "she should have minded her own business". I don't agree with that, but it's the way many people think these days.

So while challenging public miscreants is to be admired, and it would be nice if there were more consequences for the offender and fewer for the challenger, be very careful.

Just to add. I am all for adults challenging poor behaviour of unsupervised children but it's got to be appropriate.

Blimey, I wouldn't like to be around some of these mumsnetters kids if they see flicking a kids trainer with a paper as assault and think the little brats are OK or even likely to respond in that way.

No wonder there are so many odious little brats if kids are being dragged up with that attitude.

It isn’t that the action in itself is harmful. It isn’t. Nor were/are most smacked bottoms, cuffs round the head or shoved/pushes - they tend to be mild chastisement.

That’s not the point. The point is that when you make physical contact with someone to express your disapproval, you have crossed a line. And if you don’t even KNOW the kid that’s far from appropriate.