The good kids and the bad kids

[MonroeM]

Probably a daft title and not sure if in the right section on here (am still a newbie and this site is HUGE with so many areas to post) but bear with me please.

Today I was on a train (not cross country just local line) reading my newspaper and sitting with 3 others in facing seats. All calm and peaceful until 2 little yobs aged approx. 12 came and sat across the aisle. They were wearing filthy trainers and both put their feet on the seats. I flicked one of their trainers with my newspaper and told them to take feet off the seat. Others had noticed this too but were saying nothing.

The cheeky little so and so told me not to touch him and gave me the stare. His mate called out "got a problem?" and I stared back but said nothing. I knew if I reacted it would get worse but it got worse anyway.

They both began flicking paper at me and throwing bits of chewing gum from the packets they had and they were making stupid comments about me. The passengers next to me gave me knowing looks but they didnt want to intervene. I could have gone to the driver's cabin and told him but I was only two short stops away from getting off so stayed where I was.

As I got up to get off they began throwing more stuff at me and some girls began telling them off so I have no idea if they got abuse after I left.

One guy who got off with me asked if I was ok and had a moan about kids like that. I was upset inside but tried not to show it. I am no mousey little old woman.

What I really wanted to do was wring their scrawny little necks but had I touched them I would be the wrong doer.

An hour or so later I was shopping and a young boy called out to ask me something from across the road. I could not hear what he was saying due to the noisy traffic. He came over and explained he was walking his dog with his friend and the dog pooed on the pavement and they had no doggy bag. Did I have a plastic bag or something please? This lad was so polite. I helped out and that was that.

So in one afternoon I met two little s and two aspiring gentlemen any mother would be proud of.

End of my news for tonight.

Guessing doodleygirl isn't a parent

Also dare I open the floodgates re sexism by having a wry chuckle at those comparing the train boys to their well behaved girls?

Excellent post bertie

Guessing I disagree that there needs to be a boy/ girl divide on ability to behave in public. That's pure socialisation. My middle boy would be more likely to turn red and hang his head in embarrassment if told off by a stranger, he'd accept he was in the wrong but be embarrassed if spoken to pleasantly though he'd come home seething if flicked at; my girl would apologise but then probably get into chatty conversation with anyone who politely and in a pleasant way told her to remove her feet from a seat but might be much stroppier if flicked with a newspaper! That's partly age (shes 2 years older, teen not pre teen) and partly personality (she's always been more confident). My youngest boy would react more like his big sister.

All of them are well behaved alone but can be thoughtless or silly with peers because they get absorbed in the bubble of them and their friends, but all would react politely if pulled up politely on inconsiderate behaviour.

Sorry not Guessing, AlpenCrazy

Agree Bertie people do use the word "respect" intending two very different meanings. One version sees respect as all one way, the other as mutual.

Great post Bertie.

You behaved like an areshole and were rude. You escalated the situation. I imagine you are one of those people that think because you are an adult you automatically should be respected. A quiet "boys would you mind taking your feet off the seats" would have probably resulted in a totally different outcome in this situation.

Some interesting and amazing (to me) responses here, thank you.

I did not just assume they were yobs, they swaggered along the aisle and sat in those seats putting dirty feet up and looked around for responses. That IS yob behaviour.

I get those people who would not have flicked a newspaper at a dirty shoe on a seat, ok but you had to be there, a polite word to remove the shoes was not likely to result in a polite removal of them from the seat.
Some rather aggressive replies on here which I did find OTT but there you go.

Many times in situations like this I have done what the others do, ignore. This time I didn't. If flicking (just a flick, not a bloody great whack) a dirty trainer with a newspaper is assault then come and arrest me.

a polite word to remove the shoes was not likely to result in a polite removal of them from the seat.

Maybe not, but you don't know that for certain, and your approach certainly wasnt going to have that result.

If my 14yo ds EVER got on a train and behaved like that then you feel free to flick away with your newspaper.

The reason this behaviour continues is lack of challenge. Once in a while they little what names wouldn't have started because they knew ALL the adults on the train would have set them in line.

Two adults, complete strangers, had a right go at me on a train once, and were extremely unpleasant. I have no idea what set them off.

Do you know what the worst thing of all was? It was a packed train and not one single person tried to help me - they went out of their way to ignore me and look the other way.

The world gets madder every day.

"a polite word to remove the shoes was not likely to result in a polite removal of them from the seat."

...so you had no idea... even if you asked, and they refuse,d you could have then 'escalated' the situation by asking a guard or something.

Politeness is normally returned with politeness, aggression with aggression...

Have you considered that you got a reaction based on your own behaviour. Did you even ask them nicely not to put their feet up first?

I treat my kids the way I expect them to treat others. Thus, they do.

I treat my DC the way I'd treat others, too, but if one of them shoved their filthy shoes on a train seat and someone nearby with a paper tapped them on their shoe and asked them to move it, I'd shrug and let it go because yes, sometimes other adults really are entitled to say "please don't do that" and have my DC listen.

I hand them over to school knowing if they behave badly they'll be told off by adults. I send them to swim galas knowing if they dick about by the pool the adults around will rein them in. I send them to cricket and rugby knowing the coaches and other players will tell them off if they're letting their team down by behaving badly. I wouldn't let adults do them a disservice and I wouldn't let an adult physically cause any kind of harm. But a little stern look and a "no thanks" never hurt anyone.

This will not be a popular opinion but; If you start something you have to be prepared to see it through and go in with the big guns. And pick your battles. You can’t flick them and expect that to be the end of it. I say this as someone who has been started on for no reason on public transport, many times. I’ve also been the one to stick up for people who need it because I don’t like seeing people get picked on.

Example one: a boy of about 15 purposely stamped on an old ladies foot. He and his friends laughed. I went full steam on that one including grabbing him by the neck and threatening to phone his mum. He apologised to the lady and his friends laughed at him for being beaten up “by a girl”. (I was 32)

Example two: boys pretending to set fire to the back of a girls head with a lighter. Again, kicked off at full scale and they backed down and went and sat downstairs.

Feet on the seats isn’t enough to start an argument for. A flick is not a large enough action to stop the behaviour. And after that you backed down, showing that you’d already peaked. They had the upper hand and used it.

I grew up in a rough part of north London. Feet on seats is barely anything and you weren’t scary enough to make them stop.

I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't call out bad behaviour. I wish more people would! But you just went about it the wrong way, created a situation and then didn't see it through anyway. You say they put their feet up and then looked round for a reaction. 12 is the kind of age where kids want to seem more grown up than they are. You didn't need to bite and give them the satisfaction. Alternatively a polite 'please can you take your feet off the seat' would surely be the best first move? It's easier for someone to continue with the 'yob' facade (which is probably all it was) if people react aggressively to you.