The saddest bedtime routine - does it get better?

[cornflakes5]

Our bedtime routine with DD (15 months) used to go like this: books, bath (including brushing teeth) breastfeed, bed. She loved lifting all the flaps in the books and having a romp around our bed, then bath, then cosy breastfeed, then into the cot drowsy and asleep within seconds.

We felt it wasn't right breastfeeding after brushing her teeth, and our HV agreed, and suggested we do milk, bath, books then bed. Apparently most people do it this way.

We've been doing it the new one for a week now and it's really miserable. Everything fine up until DD is dried and put into her sleeping bag. The minute she sees the book come out, she starts crying. Crying becomes wailing as the book goes on, and by the time she's in her cot she's beside herself. She then cries herself to sleep. Every night. This makes me so sad, but is there another way? As an aside, DD has never been a good sleeper, and cries herself to sleep for naps, but somehow this feels worse for proper bedtime.

Anyone got something wise or reassuring to say please? 🙇🏻‍♀️

I fed all five of mine to sleep and during the night. The youngest any of them self weaned was 3. Two of them were still bf like this when they were 5. I co-slept with them all and they just helped themselves during the night.

The eldest is now 29, the youngest 16, and none of them have fillings or any kind of dental problems at all. And they all manage to sleep properly.

At this age, op, all that matters is that your baby is safe, clean, fed and happy. Just follow your instincts and go back to your old routine.

Hamper future sleep associations?! Do you know any adults that still breastfeed or need their mum to rock them to sleep?

She’s tiny still. Dd fed to sleep till she was 2.5 when I stopped breastfeeding and we’ve had no issues at all with getting her to sleep. She’s old enough to understand when I talk to her and that made life so much easier!

Give it two more weeks before you go back to old routine. Mine was the same, always reliant on feeding before going to sleep, and she was a terrible sleeper because she was using it as a way to go to sleep and not learning to go to sleep on her own. Which means that she would wake up at night and would need a feed to go to sleep. We first went cold turkey at the night time feed. And then we changed the feeding time before bed. It was hard but it made her sleep much better in the long run.

Who is sending her to sleep after the night time routine? Do you have a partner who can take over for that? We realised that mine was associating me with milk and would cry when I wouldn't give it to her so my husband had to take over to send her to sleep for the few weeks we went though it.

It takes them 2-4 weeks to develop a habit so don't give up yet. It will be good for both of you in the long run.

I fed mine to sleep for years. No issues with teeth.

Thank you again everyone for continuing to engage. The majority of you seem to be saying go back to our old routine and trust my instinct. That's my inclination too.

The HV was very no nonsense, and her advice was generally 'you're pandering to her', in response to DD being a bit behind in gross motor skills, DD not being night weaned, and DD wanting to BF when upset/bored. She thinks I'm a typical FTM, and I've made a rod for my own back by giving in so easily to requests for milk. She thinks I need to let DD know who's boss (not her). I think her approach probably works for some babies, but not all babies. She doesn't know my baby - she's got the strongest will of anyone I know!

It's so hard sometimes knowing the 'right' thing to do!

As a dentist breast feeding at night does damage teeth. It is the equivalent of grazing. So the fluoride in toothpaste is washed off if breast feeding after brushing. This information is from a course I was on recently with a consultant paediatric dentist. I also breast fed myself so I am pro breast feeding just not at night when they have teeth.

Honestly op, I would trust your own instincts and do what feels right, within reason rather than follow the latest advice (which seems to change all the time).

When dc3 was born I had a 2 year old and an almost 4 year old. At one point we had a single bed along one side of our double and a cot on the other side. I breast fed on demand through the night, often co-sleeping. They might have started off in their own cot/beds but come morning we'd all be piled up together. DM and MIL thought this was outrageous! I didn't tell DM that some of my earliest memories were of standing up in my cot, crying and wondering when someone would come to me.

As I said earlier, everyone's adult teeth are intact (well apart from mine!) and nobody developed any sleep issues.

Just do what feels right.

As a dentist breast feeding at night does damage teeth. It is the equivalent of grazing. So the fluoride in toothpaste is washed off if breast feeding after brushing.

Surely drinking anything at all would wash the fluoride off the teeth? I agree it's not perfect, but the fact remains that breastfeeding at night doesn't cause cavities for the majority of kids who do it. For most people, dental hygiene doesn't need to be perfect, just good enough.

Honestly, go back to your old routine. She’s a baby and won’t be snacking on tons of sugary stuff I imagine do milk at night before bed is fine. I may get flamed here but my daughter from the age of 14 months to around two years old had hot chocolate to bed every night. Obviously now teeth are the last thing she does but she will have juice before sleeping. Her teeth are actually fine and she’s had no issues. I’m not saying what I do is great but sometimes the comfort for the child is more important. My kid won’t just drink water so we give juice because hydration is better for her than juice would be bad. It’s about weighing up pros and cons. It takes us four hours to get our child to sleep because she was too big for the cot to be safe and sos he climbs out of bed and is generally a little terror. We are now trying to get a special bed we can zip up to contain her. Sounds drastic but it’s better for her just like the milk before bed will be better for your child.

@cornflakes5 I also didn’t have a HV textbook baby. I did second time around and could see then what everyone was talking about. But DC1 had other ideas and still does! Nothing would make her settle apart from milk before bed and believe me I tried! I’m afraid I stopped taking HV advice about that and just nodded and smiled. It wasn’t her listening to a screaming baby for two hours each night.

Books helped a bit when she got older (but a LOT of them)

All the info I have read says that breastfeeding at night does not damage teeth.
I didn’t night wean until nearly 3 years and we still feed before sleep. Never any dental issues.

If a HV told me I was “pandering” to what is basically still a baby (yours, not my 3 year old) I’d stop going to a HV.

Yes the HV told me I was pandering to my baby because I was breastfeeding beyond 1 yo. She said “he doesn’t need your milk, you are spoiling him”.

Then I had to point out that her advice goes against the world health organization who recommend breastfeeding up to 2 years.

She still wouldn’t stop at each weighing visit. So I avoid her..

Many HV undermine breastfeeding I find. It’s irritating

Also, if you've got a proper latch, the milk goes in past the teeth and straight down the throat. So the milk should have minimal contact with teeth.

Sounds like some of us have the same HV! @Emmapeeler @IABUQueen

Those of you who are/were still breastfeeding overnight past one year, why do you think our babies are still waking up in the night? I read again and again babies of this age do not need food overnight, but maybe some do? How did you eventually night wean?

@cornflakes5 to be honest I can’t remember - I was always a bit rubbish at the middle of the night! My DC still woke up for a long time but as they were in with me it didn’t matter too much, if that makes sense. I think in the end they were doing it almost in their sleep, so I pulled away after a short while and turned them on their side and eventually they stopped. Sorry to be vague

They're called milk teeth for a reason. Do milk last and the teeth will fall out before she has any issues. They're only little once.

I'm planning to night wean my thirteen month old this month. As far as I can work out, babies wake a little and decide they'd quite like a nice cuddle or a boob so wake up fully and start asking for attention. If they know boobs will not be forthcoming there's nothing to fully wake up for and they'll be more likely to drift back off. WRT self settling at bedtime without boob 🤷

I'm going to go against the grain and say stick at it for a bit. My DS is breastfed but we night weaned him at about 8 months old. He now sleeps through. He was perfectly happy to not have the feed.
However my HV has told me off as he is too heavy apparently. I think most get told off for something!

Thank you @CrackOn that's an interesting take on it, I hadn't thought of it like that. We've tried sleep training so many times in the past, and it's never really worked. Each step towards sleeping through, DD has made because she was ready and not because of any external factor. I think she is an eternal optimist, and always holds out hope that the boob is forthcoming.

@NeverGotMyPuppy the thing is, DD is the opposite of 'perfectly happy' not to have her feed. How many nights did it take to fully wean your little one?

That's my inclination too
And you will always know what is best for your child.

The HV was very no nonsense, and her advice was generally 'you're pandering to her

Tell her to Piss Off Ignore her.

I waited until DD stopped wanting to be BF. It took her until she was 2, she woke up on her 2nd Birthday and must have thought 'Nah'

I didnt argue