Knife and fork, how do you push food onto fork?!

[BiscuitDrama]

DH and I have decided the other is odd.

He noticed that if we’re eating something where we need to push our food onto a fork (which I know is a bit plebby full stop) we do it the opposite way round.

He asked me to ask you which way round you do it.

So do you push from far away, toward you and the fork (red arrows) or do you push away from you (yellow arrows).

Or do you have no clue what I’m talking about?

I eat to enjoy my food. I was taught impeccable manners by my mum but these include eat asparagus, chicken legs and anything else that seems easier that way by hand. You "delight the chef" whether that's your mum or the head chef at the Dorchester by enjoying your food

mssmith

I get you now, perhaps it's worth a google. I want to know where it originated now.
I'm in my 50's so not a youngster.
My parents would be 87/88 respectively now. I remember them being hot on table manners, they and I are wc, so anyone considering it just mc wouldn't be right.
My dh same age as me and his parents were the same apparently.

@Paramicha - I'm 54 so similar age and my parents (working class by any measure) were very hot on manners but after several years of trying to get peas to balance on the back of her fork, my mum just gave up. As long as we didn't shovel food onto the table and showed a bit of decorum (don't look like a pig), everything was fine. She was very hot on not talking with food in our mouths and always close our mouths whilst chewing. And no eating food off sharp knives either.

... don't get me started on what they used to use to clean dog mess off our shoes.... it's a whole thread on its own and I'm not starting it.

@msmith501 oh I know there’s no correct way to eat! When I say ‘the proper way’ I mean it because old habits die hard with being brought up a certain way.

That said, I work in an industry (private wealth) where ability to ‘pass’ is super important, a part of which is knowing social etiquette. I’m the first to say these rules shouldn’t exist, but like it or not they do. I’d therefore like any children of ours to be able to feel like they fit in in any environment they find themselves. It’s like a lot of things - much as I’d like the world to be different I’m not about to make my kids an example for that. Eg I think the world would be a better place without private education but if it offers my kids an advantage I’ll do everything I can to give them that. Societal changes need to happen, and I’m not going to sacrifice my children’s future on principle.

Red way

@Dollywilde - don't disagree with what you say - fitting in helps in all sorts of ways, even if what you have to do to fit in is sometimes ridiculous. I wonder though, pondering aloud whilst watching Police Interceptors and shoring at the TV, if, while the people at the events you mention are dropping peas off the backs of forks, starting with the outside cutlery and working their way in, pondering over the rightness of sticking their pinky fingers out whilst partaking of a delicate wine, ensuring they don't use a white wine glass for red etc, ... I wonder how many are thinking "I'd rather be at home, not worrying about how I eat, drink, deport myself." It would be ironic if the behaviour we have been discussing only comes out when groups of people come together but secretly they'd all rather not. That would be the ultimate in parody sadly.

Agree with others - don't use your fork as a shovel. It should be the other way up.

@EdWinchester - at the risk of opening the same can of worms of about two hours ago, why do you think it should be used the way you describe? What's your basis? I'm just interested, not suggesting that there is a right or wrong way apart from in people's perceptions.

In the same way there are rules about cutlery placement, or not holding your knife like a pen etc, or talking with food in your mouth.. It's a matter of etiquette.

If I was shovelling the last dregs of curry/rice into my mouth, I’d go with the red one. (In fairness I’d have used a spoon 😊😊😊).

I'm from the continent and we find the whole fork upside down thing quite odd.

We also "park" our cutlery together, to the right of the plate (three o'clock position) when done, not at six o'clock.

Oh and at home I use a spoon loads for things like curry. Had no idea this made me such a commoner - but of all the vices to have I'm pretty fine with poor cutlery etiquette if I still get to eat yummy things

Don't disagree with talking with food in your mouth - no one's wants to be showered with half chewed food. So, putting that to one side, who decides what's the right way to hold cutlery or position it on the table etc. Put simple, (And I do understand etiquette as I also generally follow the accepted norms), but that should not stop us asking the question "who established the accepted norms... who set etiquette in stone". It is not enough to just say "it's etiquette" without questioning why. If we all did that, we'd have a situation where part of the country wanted to leave The EU and part didn't and neither would be in full ownership of all the facts... good thing that'd never happen.

But what if you were at a formal dinner? Loads of courses and wines?

Would you be happy to be conspicuous by your lack of manners or cutlery skills?

You might have the odd night in alone, shovelling in pasta on the sofa - but to me it's important to be able to eat without social embarrassment and non-offensively. Part of growing up for me and consequently, our kids is to be adroit with cutlery/chopsticks etc and not show themselves up. This sort of thing still matters!

Start from the outside and work your way inwards @EdWinchester.
I've been to god knows how many formal dinners to care.

Again, not saying it doesn't matter. It's a Philosophical question. Who determined a long time ago what would remain socially acceptable, or not, up to this day. Given that early examples of spoons were more shovel like in design and presumably use (no tines in early designs), at some point it seems likely that high society balls and the like settled on one way of doing things, other parties followed, wanting to be with the in-crowd, and a new norm was established. TV, media, films etc. probably helped to promulgate the idea of a societal norm and generations later it's an established norm in some quarters. I do actually go to many influential dinners with senior ministers from time to time and understand the idea of fitting in. Doesn't stop me questioning it though and the OP's question was a small catalyst for a train of thought.

And still thinking aloud, I'm not sure if I'd have showed myself up at any of the formal dinners if I'd reversed my spoon to pick up some food. With colleagues or industry leaders, I've always found them to be relaxed enough to not judge people on such superficial things.. it's more about the special abilities or talents of the people I think - that's what makes people interesting and "one of us" whatever that means. Not sure about private education as someone mentioned earlier - does that bestow an advantage in terms of knowing how to fit in etc? No idea as I went to secondary modern but I seem to have scraped a living and a decent set of post grad degrees. I genuinely do understand that to a lot of people these things seem to matter... but in actuality, do they or are we just too programmed to think otherwise and too afraid to step outside of what we've had drilled into us.
No idea and I'm off to bed but thanks for an interesting thread.

I remember going on an exchange visit abroad as a teenager and bringing the whole meal to a standstill whilst the extended family looked at me indulgently and declared that it was so adorable the way I used my fork the wrong way i.e. the way that has been declared to be a non negotiable manner of etiquette on this thread. Manners are very subjective...

Anyway, on the odd occasion when I do use my fork in the shovel style I'd be following the red arrows on the illustration.

Red.

(On the rare occasions I actually use a knife)

I honestly didn’t know about these “rules” till I joined MN. I’m now wondering if I’ve committed fork faux pas (plural?) when at formal dinners for work. But then I might not have been at anything that formal, I’m not sure.

I really hope normal people in normal life aren’t looking out for these things.