I just need to put up with this, don't I?

[highdo]

MIL is a nice, well-meaning woman who has been known to overstep the mark, hurt my feelings unintentionally or do things with DD which I have asked her not to or which I disagree with. If something she has done has upset me I usually keep it to myself, but this week it was something big (related to DD's safety and something we have previously expressed concern about her doing) so I told DH who agreed with my concerns and spoke to PILs gently. He said it went well but now has received messages from FIL saying MIL is upset, I've been "off" with her recently, she'll be avoiding us for a while, etc. DH is now very upset, angry and shouting at me that I have "made his bad week worse" etc. This is the usual pattern on the rare occasion I ask him to mention something to MIL (happened probably 3-4 times in a decade)- if DH agrees with me he reluctantly mentions it, conversation is fine then FIL says MIL has been upset, I get bullied into apologising to MIL. I feel like my concerns don't matter and that I just need to "put up and shut up". I tried to explain this to DH but he just says I am making things worse. What can I do here? I feel my hands are tied.

He's a gutless wonder who has got his priorities wrong. He's avoiding confrontation and not putting his dc first. He's actually putting himself first. I recognise this exact behaviour in someone I know. He won't change
He's angry with you because deep down he knows yr right and using anger as an avoidance tactic. Don't apologise. Sorry but he's being a shit

he keeps saying he is upset/angry/stressed and since it is all apparently my fault I didn't want to say anything else

And you still don't think he's manipulative? You might want to think again, OP, because he's learned this directly from MIL and neither will get any better if they continue to be appeased as I know from bitter experience

It's not going to be pleasant, but at some point he'll have to decide if he's prepared to prioritise you at all - or even to show you a little respect. I completely understand the pain of realising he'd pick her if it came to it, so I'd recommend you push this forward asap; if he's not going to make any changes it seems a shame to waste your time

DH has apologised to me for "overreacting". I told him I appreciated him mentioning the issue to PILs and standing up for DD's safety but that he has made me feel I can't share my concerns with him which he has accepted. I said he should send them a text saying we didn't mean to upset them we were just worried about DD (not apologising though!) and just to leave it after that. Don't know if he's done it but PILs are now sending each other passive aggressive messages on the family chat about MIL's "frustrations" which I am ignoring FFS

DH has apologised to me for "overreacting"

Translation: I still think you're in the wrong, but had better toss the odd crumb to calm you down

Why don't you know if he's sent that perfectly reasonable text? Isn't it the sort of thing you'd expect any genuinely contrite person to share?

@Puzzledandpissedoff I hadn't thought of it that way. He does seem to be genuinely trying to make amends with me. I don't know if he's sent the message because he's out, I said he should send it last night but don't know if he has and don't really want to ask. I feel like I just want to leave the situation be and let PILs stew.

don't know if he has (sent the text) and don't really want to ask

Can I gently suggest you look at those last 5 words again and consider the position you've been put in and why you're so much on the back foot? This whole situation concerns you deeply and yet you don't want to ask?

I can only go on my own experience here, but it's that such men - rather than doing anything constructive - will simply placate whoever shouts loudest at the time

Personally I'd want a bit more than that ...

Nobody is allowed to ever question MIL, FIL steps in and defends her fiercely. Somehow DH accepts this dynamic but won't even consider that I might be in the right for once.
Look how your FIL defends his wife - even when she's wrong. What a pity your own husband can't- or won't- do the same.

If he genuinely cannot support his wife and the safety of his child what use is he in your relationship?

As for him leaving me over PIL issues... I think he would. He would pick them over me if it came down to it. That's hard to acknowledge.
This must be hard to realise. Whilst you can only hope this changes I really hope you are not financially vulnerable (eg a SAHM) without finances if it comes to him leaving you. Do you have a job outside the home, access to funds, savings if your own, etc. And do you have friends and family who you could turn to both for real life support now and in the eventuality of a separation? If not, time to discreetly get your "ducks in a row".

Stand strong OP and don't apologise now, or in the future, just to keep the peace - that's no way for anyone to live. 🌹

@Puzzledandpissedoff I see your point, I am always on the back foot here. The narrative is always that I am depressed/anxious/a worrier etc and I find that very frustrating.

@Happynow001 While I wouldn't be comfortable financially I could survive on my own, have savings, support network and a reliable income. I really hope it doesn't come to that. I love DH, I really don't want this to ruin us.

Perhaps you could explain that to him, you can’t be expected to be carrying the emotional burden for you both just because he’s feeling stressed at a situation he’s allowed.

I tell my husband when he’s pushed me past my point of acceptance, if I’m even vaguely considering my escape plan I tell him. He then has a conscious choice to change or evaluate the outcome. He has so far always considered my feelings and adapted. I don’t say it lightly either and realise if it’s me at fault too.

Your DH sounds extremely unkind.

Your motivation in all of this is DDs safety and yet he ends up shouting at you.

I wouldn't be praising him for raising it with MIL. I'd be telling him that the very least a child can expect from their parent is to keep them safe so if that includes upsetting granny about car seat rules (or whatever) then that's what a parent bloody well does.

And as for shouting at you- does he want his daughter to grow up thinking it is ok for one half of a couple to emotionally abuse the other? If he wouldn't like a future partner behaving like this with his DD why does he feel it's ok to treat you like this?

OP you deserve a hell of a lot better.

The narrative is always that I am depressed/anxious/a worrier etc and I find that very frustrating

Oh how well I recognise that obvious gaslighting - such a shame, isn't it, that they choose to ignore the difference a little support would make? And sadly it IS a choice, made because he prioritises his family's toxic behaviour patterns over his wife's needs - and, as GetUp said, ignores the example this is giving your little daughter

Unfortunately there isn't an easy answer to this; it's not that you're failing to "put it the right way", but that he'd just rather not address the real problems. None of us on here can know whether he'll ever do that, but one thing's for sure: he certainly won't do it while he's able to shut you up so effectively

Do you REALLY think he would choose MIL over you? Destroy your family life and everything you’ve built together? Unless there’s more going on in your relationship, I doubt it.

You buying into this dynamic and not upsetting MIL makes his life easier. But if you stood up and said “actually love, I’m worth more than this. I won’t be treated with such disrespect as a parent and adult, your parents need to get over themselves and I’m not engaging with this shit any more”, chances are he’d be annoyed, then he’d shift to backing you instead. As then THAT would make his life easier.

If I were you I would try and trust your marriage is strong enough to withstand you being assertive (not aggressive) and refuse to be painted as anxious etc. when you are quite within your rights to ensure your PIL respect boundaries. And if it’s not, well, it’s probably not worth protecting by keeping this dynamic going.

In summary the dynamic is set to always keep you in your place. Step out of it!

I think that's why I think your DH is manipulative OP; because you're being led to believe that it's you that's in the wrong for saying something, not his DM for committing whatever act it was that made you want to speak out in the first place.

You're the one being cast as the over-anxious worrier; he throws his toys out of the pram if you step up and implies his worries and feelings are a greater priority than yours.

I agree you need to step out of the dynamic but I think you do need to reflect on what this means going forward. I'm not saying LTB because obviously life is generally more nuanced than that, but I do think you're being bullied into backing down by your DH as much as by the rest of his family.

I realise a lot of DH's behaviour amounts to gaslighting. This thread has given me lots to think about. I'm going to take time to think things over. DH has come home, given me a kiss and continued as if nothing has happened. He says he texted PILs last night as I advised and thinks "they realise they overreacted". I tried to talk more about it but he says we need to leave it there and move on. I'm still upset, frankly, but there you have it. Apparently MIL is "sensitive" and "has a full plate" (if we were having a competition I'd bloody well win I'll tell you that, but I'm not petty enough to point this out to DH).

I probably really would point it out, it’s easier to really really make your point once rather than have the same recurring issue - and so far he’s not taken anything onboard....

Wish you well

OP I read this thread with an open mouth as I went through the EXACT same thing with my ex-DP. Honestly, it was like I had written it myself.

Once I realised how sly and manipulative MIL was, I got to a point where I couldn’t take it anymore. DP never had my back, even when he acknowledged MIL was completely out of order he would still take her side and get angry at me. She would turn on the crocodile tears and play the victim, DP and FIL rushing to her aide, me in the big bad wolf role

It was a major reason of why we split up (there were other reasons too) but I couldn’t live the rest of my life dealing with that bullshit.

The last stunt she pulled I flat out refused to apologise or back down (she treated me horribly and I had the audacity to ask her what her issue was with me, this apparently meant that I verbally attacked her 🙄) and she refused to speak to me for 6 months, DP never once supported me. I lost all feelings for him and eventually we split.

It’s not a nice way to live, knowing that your feelings don’t matter to the person who is supposed to love you.

I’m so glad to be away from MIL. SO glad.

I hope you can get your DH to understand how you feel and realise the unhealthy family dynamic that he seems to be trapped him. No more placating her, no more apologising, stand up for yourself. Your feelings matter just as much as anyone else’s.

Well DH is now sulking again. Presumably because I've not snapped back to normal quickly enough. He says he wants "to move on" and "stop going over things". Once again, who gives a shit about how I feel?
@NabooThatsWho She sounds horrendous, I'm sorry you went through that.

Oh OP this tells you a lot though doesnt it that you are suppose to just move on without you having any sense he agrees with you

He says he texted PILs last night as I advised and thinks "they realise they overreacted"

He's really quite keen on this non-committal "overreacted" word isn't he?

I tried to talk more about it but he says we need to leave it there and move on ... and is now sulking again, presumably because I've not snapped back to normal quickly enough

And on top of this he expects to dictate what will happen and is sulking because you've not come to heel? It's maybe unfair to be disgusted by a man I've not even met, but I recognise this abusive style so very well

Sadly you may need to brace yourself for the next stage, where the whole thing becomes your fault - and not just because of your alleged worrying. You could of course avoid this by being "a good girl" and it might even earn you a small crumb of temporary approval ... but I really wouldn't recommend it

Well we have just had a big conversation about it all. He is indeed pissed off because I "still haven't dropped it". I've told him I'm hurt by PILs' behaviour and his own. He is blaming his reaction on lots of unrelated issues. None of this will resolve the pattern of bullshit with the PILs though. Next time I'm going to stand my ground and not concede, even though it's been really hard this time at least I'm being true to myself and not giving into the gaslighting narrative that has been perpetuated- fuck that, I'm not crazy, I'm a rational mother concerned above all about DD's wellbeing. All of your responses have been so helpful but fuck it's been really hard going to read lots of them.

but he still isnt supporting you or apologised for his parnts behaviour instead he is minimising and passing blame

Have you moved on?

@Puzzledandpissedoff You're very perceptive. I'm finding your responses really hard, which isn't to say I don't appreciate them, I really do and you're hitting the nail on the head. Ordinarily I'd have apologised to MIL long ago, and apologised to DH for "making a fuss". But fuck that! My feelings matter, I know that I was entirely justified in bringing up the issue with DD originally and I'm tired of this bullshit. I wouldn't want DD to give in for the sake of being an easy life over something like this so I won't be doing it either. Thank you for your words.

I'm not crazy, I'm a rational mother concerned above all about DD's wellbeing

I'd say that shines through with absolute clarity

I know exactly what you mean about some of this being hard to read - at the time I felt wrung out by friends telling me much the same things - but here's the good news: it's hard to stand your ground against abuse like this, but trust me that it gets a LOT easier with practice

@Quartz2208 I have told him it will take time for me to feel less upset by this and he's annoyed about that. We've made up, sort of. I've told him his recent behaviour (this and other things) has made me feel concerned about the future of our relationship which he said was hurtful, I told him my intention was honesty. I'm so used to being the bad guy/the "irrational"/anxious one that I always just assume I'm in the wrong but I actually don't think I am here! I think he needs to get his act together!