Help me stop my toddler from overeating!

[Karmaa]

Since before DD2 even weaned, she was extremely interested in any food that was around her. When I started weaning her, I couldn't believe the way she would literally eat any food. You could purée any veg combo and she would guzzle it up. Problems we had though were, as soon as she saw we were making food, the crying would begin until she was fed it. Then, as soon as her meal was finished she'd scream for more. She was otherwise very placid. Things got worse and basically, she would start screaming during the meal and it became apparent over time that the thing upsetting her was the thought of the meal finishing. It was so bad to the point I couldn't take her into café's or anywhere that food was being served because her melt downs were just so severe. She is now 3 and we still have some issues surrounding food. She basically will not stop eating. She is around the 10th centile for height and the 75th for weight and looks fine (obviously on the chubby side though). When it's just me and her, it's fine. I control portion sizes and give her healthy meals & snacks. To give you an idea of how much her world revolves around food, before she goes to bed for her nap or her night time sleep, she always asks me "mummy is it nighttime or naptime" and when I say "nighttime" she's really happy and says "yay! I get breakfast when I wake up" or if I say "naptime" she is sad because she knows she doesn't get a meal straight after her nap. Bearing in mind naptime comes straight after lunch so she can't possibly be hungry.

Where I'm having real issues is that my best friend has a 1.5 year old who is really picky with food. She grazes throughout the day so whenever we meet said friend, she brings a massive lunchbox full of food. Anything from cocktail sausages, veg, pretzels, breadsticks. She always opens up the box for my DD and hers to get stuck into. I tried saying that my DD shouldn't really be eating at that time because it's maybe an hour before she is due to have dinner but it just becomes impossible. DD gets very upset if she isn't allowed any of the food and then my friend feels bad about it. I resorted to bringing my own packed lunch along whenever we see them, basically full of cucumber sticks, carrot sticks and such to give to my DD but she still ends up eating from my friends lunch box. I did say no to this and told her she has her own but then she'll just cry continually and my friend ends up feeling bad.

I'm finding it so difficult. I don't want to overfeed DD but i don't know how to control these external factors like other people feeding her.

I'll just give you another example to explain how she is around food. The other day, we went to our friends house who had prepared us a lovely brunch. DD had bread, ham & other cold meat, fruit, croissant, yoghurt etc. We left just before 12 and DD said "mummy when we get home can I have morning snack and lunch". I explained that she wouldn't be having those because we had gone for brunch instead. She cried for about 20 minutes straight.

She's obviously eating or wanting to eat for reasons other than being hungry and I'm just not sure how best to deal with this.

Sorry for the long post. Please help!

I’d give eggs for breakfast. Scrambled or mashed in a cup with butter. 1 or 2 plus toast and fruit.

Snack would be cubes of cheese plus peppers/cucumber sticks or full fat Greek yoghurt with berries.

Lunch I’d give chicken or tuna with pita and hummus plus salad vegetables and more cheese or avocado for fat.

Or soup, a homemade lentil soup is very filling with maybe a cheese sandwich and apple.

Ditch the ‘toddler’ bars they’re crap.

Dinner isn’t too bad but spaghetti bolognese plus garlic bread is loads of carbs and stodge.

More fat and protein and less white carbs.

Snacks of cake bars, breadsticks, rice cakes etc. are pointless and not filling.

Do you have time in the morning to give her an egg or similar source of protein for breakfast? Her diet does seem rather carb heavy and protein light, although you are feeding her a pretty varied diet of good food. Protein is absolutely the key to feeling full for longer.
There’s some truth in the old saying “breakfast like a king, lunch like a amd dine like a pauper”

It’s very difficult to overeat real food.

We can all eat processed shit until the cows come home and never really be satisfied.

It’s much harder to overeat a proper homemade soup and salad etc.

As others have said a child with prada-willi would eat bars of soap and other non food items, she'd raid the fridge and eat blocks of butter, it's not just a big appetite.

Could there be a psychological side to this - I suspect that she's subconsciously aware of how tightly food is controlled and this fixates her attention on it, as is human nature when a resource is perceived as scarce.

A few years ago I worked with older disabled adults who'd been brought up in an institution by nuns - the nuns had deplored gluttony and as children, these people had been fed just enough, not more. They were universally absolutely fixated upon food despite having a variety of diversions available, outings and activities etc. They never stopped thinking about food because their lives had revolved around it as children and they'd always felt it was withheld from them, though they hadn't been starved or even technically underfed really. They'd never been in control of their food intake. They all "stole" food if possible despite the whole approach to food having changed in their modern care facility and most of them being overweight adults.

She's fixated on asking for food and on a defined schedule of morning snack etc. It sounds as though she sees food as a scarce resource which is withheld from her and feels as though she needs to eat as much as she can when it is available in case she's hungry later.

When I read the list of what she eats, I thought it actually doesn’t sound like she eats that much in the day. Evening meal sounds substantial, but as other posters have suggested, you could up her protein/fat intake during the day.

My toddler often asks for snacks (or to breastfeed!) when I know he’s bored - does she still ask for food when she’s out playing/distracted?

It just sounds like she has made alot of associations with food. Your friens etc. It all means food plus she remembers her routine for at home too.

Are you home usually to give all that food?

What happens when you are out somewhere or with someone where they aren't carrying food about with them?

Personally I'd try dropping the snacks. So she gets used to doing stuff or having bigger gaps between eating to cut out the expectations of more food.

I don't think she eats that much! That's on the light end of the spectrum for me and I have a child with ASD who eats like a mouse!

Up the protein, though I wouldn't necessarily reduce the carbs as little people do need carbs for all that energy. Would she drink milk? Full fat milk has good fats and cals and helps fill the corners.

The thing about routine is interesting. I'd be tempted to leave out things like cucumber and carrot sticks and cheese cubes after breakfast, replenishing them after lunch, which she can eat as and when she wants. If she eats them all at once, they don't get topped back up till the next meal, but the idea is to give her some control over what she eats and teach her the consequences of what happens when it's all done.

Meals are absolutely the fixed point in our day - I think this could be about control and routine rather than the food itself. My son is 13 now and is still completely unable to cope with the concept of brunch, for example, even though he intellectually knows it's a 'thing' it's not part of his routine and never will be.

It sounds as though she sees food as a scarce resource which is withheld from her and feels as though she needs to eat as much as she can when it is available in case she's hungry later.

Absolute bollocks.

OP, will pm you, not posting my child's health issues here.

I don't want to overfeed DD but i don't know how to control these external factors like other people feeding her.

This is when you find out who your real friends are and which parents are decent enough to look out for your child.

I've got a thread going called today my toddler ate, might be worth having a look at what others are eating for ideas, amounts etc.

I don’t think she eats that much! Maybe give a banana at breakfast with the porridge/muesli and some more fruit/veg in the day. You could try houmous with the veg sticks. I’d also let her have a sandwich with two slices of bread or maybe put more filling inside, give fruit or boiled egg with it.
How often do you meet up with your friend? I would just make dd the same snack box to be honest, she won’t understand why the other child is allowed something she can’t have. If you make a big deal of her not being allowed to eat from the box it’s making it into a bigger thing and more appealing to her! If it’s close to dinner then just give a smaller portion or give more meat/veg than carb at dinner.

It doesn't sound like shes getting that much food to be honest. My 10 month old could probably eat that. Is it possible that food has become a bit of a source of anxiety? If shes not overweight then why not just carry fruit or similar with you when you're out it shes hungry? I doesn't sound like PW. I work in adult social care and you would see a lot of stealing food and trying to eat non food items. You would physically have to lock the cupboard and fridge by now. You could certainly speak to your GP to rule out health issues but I would personally put a lot less pressure on food and just make sure she has plenty of healthy options and good snacks. It's very hard to become overweight eating non processed food because it doesn't hold the same appeal if you're not that hungry.

I wouldn't restrict a three year olds food intake unless they were actually overweight/obese. It is your responsibility to offer appropriate foods and when to offer them and her responsibility to eat as much as she needs. Breakfast and lunch sound on the light side to me.

It's difficult because you can't see the portion sizes she is getting. Friends with children of a similar age who come to play are served the same amount and never finish it. DD's plate is always (100% of the time) clean at the end of every meal. Also, she is wanting more after every meal.

You say she's not overweight, but you must remember her height is 10th centile and weight is 75th. So a child with the same proportions with a height of say 50th centile, would be classed as overweight. Her weight centile is well above her height centile.

But we can see the portion sizes op. We can easily visualise what a one slice of bread sandwich, a quarter of a burger or two crackers looks like. And many of us think that's not loads for an active three year old.

It could be polyphagia/hyperphagia which is linked to diabetes. I would see if she can be seen at the GP to rule this out ASAP.

I am absolutely not demonising carbs but I do think some people’s innate response to white/highly processed carbs is much more intense than others and it sets off a cycle of craving more. Maybe experiment with replacing those carbs (bread, pasta, crackers, toddler bars, even oats and white potato) with protein and fat and whole food carbs such as lentils, chickpeas and beans.

Make breakfast muffins with eggs, veg and cheese, or make omelette

give her apple/banana slices with nut butter.

Houmous/Tzatkiki/Tara with veg

Greek yoghurt with fruit/honey

Dahls/curries/spiralized veg with protein for dinner.

Try for a few days and see if she seems satisfied with this kind of food?

Before I was diagnosed with coeliacs (intolerance to gluten in foods) I felt better to be eating - hated having an empty stomach. The gluten was wearing away the lining of my stomach making it raw. I think you should take her to a gp.

But I would also see GP if you are worried. It doesn’t sound like she is over eating!

But we can see the portion sizes op. We can easily visualise what a one slice of bread sandwich, a quarter of a burger or two crackers looks like. And many of us think that's not loads for an active three year old

Now I'm going by what the routines of my two and friends kids at a similar age so obviously they could differ and then there would be a completely different case .

Hiwbee if the kid is up at say 7/7.30 has breakfast by 8 and lunch at 12. Then by the time they have been cleaned up dressed you have washed up after breakfast and you aim to be back for say half 11 to start lunch then theres not a huge amount of time for all this exercise before you hit the snacks half way between the 2.

I can understand why you are worried OP, because her diet sounds pretty good compared to a lot of toddlers and yet she is overweight for her age.

If you let her eat as much as she wanted for lunch, but it was all protein and veg, what would happen? I agree with others that her diet sounds a little carb heavy which is maybe why she isn't feeling full.

That really doesn't sound like an awfully large amount! I was expecting much more from what you described tbh.

She sounds like she views food as an exciting event. I’m not sure what you do about that though.

PWS increased appetite doesn’t kick in till 4.5-8 years.

pwsausa.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Nutritional-Phases-in-PWS-AJMG-2011.pdf Page 4

I should have explained this sooner but what I've outlined is a typical day that she would spend with only me. When we are with others, people feed her over and above this. Or if we were at the beach, she'd get an ice cream over and above. Or at the cinema, she'd get some sweets as a treat. She always eats what I listed but will have extra in many scenarios. I'm really shocked to hear so many people saying that's not enough.

I will definitely make the changes suggested and sub out some carbs for some protein and fatty foods like avacado. Hopefully there will be some impact from that 🙏🏼

Let her eat as much veg and fruit as she wants.

My ds was an eater. Loved to munch all day if we let him. He too was a tad overweight but he runs about like a loon.

I always made sure we had water available all the time so he could drink that first.

One day we went to a family event and I didn’t have my eye on him. He ate so much, he went to the toilet, threw up and ate some more. At nursery he used to have three portions of dinner

Now, he’s got excellent appetite control. Yes he likes sweet things and will eat them loads but he will stop when he’s full. He doesn’t clear his plate and if he eats loads at one meal he won’t want anything later on.

He’s 9. He’s not at all overweight and he does way more exercise than his peers.

So yes I was worried about his weight but I suspect he was eating so quickly he didn’t know what being full was like until it was too late!

I didn’t make any major changes to his diet except for minimising the amount of shop bought snacks he had.

My other child is as fussy as anything though and eats very slowly.