When the bully says they are being bullied

[DaisiesAreOurSilver]

12 - 13 year old girls at secondary school. Not many girls in the class but they have been close and get along well. New child, Anna, joined at Christmas and they welcomed her into the group.

At half term things within the group started to get unpleasant and there were fallings out, exclusions and spiteful actions. A couple of parents were worried about this and cross-examined their daughters. It emerged that Anna has been stirring the shit with the others. Telling lies, saying things have been said that hadn't, complaining to teachers about things that didn't happen. Setting them off against each other. Threatening them if they didn't do as she said.

When they realised what was happening the girls were very upset but there were apologies and they made up, as best they could. They decided to have nothing to do with Anna because she couldn't be trusted.

Now Anna's mother is complaining that she is being bullied and excluded. The girls admit she's being excluded but with good reason. The class teacher knows what went on but is trying to persuade them to include Anna again but they won't. They have been forced to do some activities with her in school but refuse point blank (with the support of their parents) to have anything to do with her outside school.

The mother won't leave it alone and is up at the school every week. One of the other parents discovered the reason Anna left her previous school was because of exactly this behaviour.

The girls are fed up with being made to look like the bad guys by the teachers. Shouldn't the teachers just lay off and stop trying to force things?

Support the girls and tell the school that your children are under no obligation to entertain this child. She needs to go and find other friends.

The class teacher knows what went on but is trying to persuade them to include Anna again but they won't.

No. No. No. This should never happen. My class are a Y8 class too and this kind of friendship issue is not uncommon, in fact, I had to deal with something very similar a few months ago. I have never and would never encourage the girls into being friends with someone who has caused this problem. I would encourage them to be the bigger person and be civil and polite but that's it.

You need to make it very plain to the school and their teacher that while you expect your daughter to be polite and not cause any issues, you do not want any member of staff trying to force your child into an unpleasant situation. It's a shame that Anna has found herself in this situation too but her own parents need to support her without involving your children.

And I know that sounds a bit harsh to 'Anna', but unless you see what some of these kids can be capable of every day, it's hard to understand. They can be very manipulative, unkind and can create a massive change in dynamic in a class.

Sounds like Anna needs some therapy, and possibly a term homeschooled to take her out of the school environment while she learns how to have non-toxic relationships. Her parents need to step up - moving her between schools while not addressing the issues will not work.

Thanks for the replies. Much long the same lines as we were thinking. Anna isn't our responsibility.

The class needs to encouraged to be polite and when necessary work together.
They do not need to be friends.
I'd leave it at that.
Anna clearly hasn't learned anything and has had to change school once, its Anna who has to change. When she does I'm sure she'll make friends.

I have a class with this dynamic. My "Anna" came into the class as top dog, gathered her chosen few, insulted everyone else to the point a couple wanted to change class, insisted her chosen few didn't go to parties of people she didn't approve of etc etc.
Tide has turned after two years. "Anna" is now the self-excluded victim (because the others are jealous of her )
Having seen what the other, lovely girls went through, it's unsurprising.
My "Anna"'s mother believes the hype and continues to trot into school saying they are jealous. Despite having been told the truth by the HT about the bullying that went on.

I really didn't think that this could happen until my DS class had an 'Anna' starting in Y6, wow, she really did stir it up and the class was totally up in arms. It was mostly the girls that were affected as she totally wrecked any friendships going but the whole class atmosphere just changed for the worse. Her mum as well was up at school most days. Sorry no advise but it's horrible

It’s horrible, deniable and classic tactics for the bully to claim they’re being bullied. No advice as it’s very difficult for people who just want to be decent.

@TheCanterburyWhales, I could have written your post. It's awful to see it unfold isn't it, as you can see what's going on before your eyes. My latest Anna is undeniably a clever girl, particularly when it comes to gaslighting the other children. It's actually quite chilling sometimes.

life lesson for Anna : You reap what you sow.

It's a shame that Anna has found herself in this situation

Again and hasn't learnt from it.

Anna has done this before and now doing it in a new school, perhaps her parents need to take a close look at their daughter.

It sounds like Anna needs some professional input if she is going to change her behavior

She’s made her bed - tough luck. I have no patience for those displaying consistent carefully thought through unkindness

Read cats eye by Margaret Atwood. Book about little girls bullying. Anna is the Zenia character.

My daughter encountered an 'Anna' in primary school 20 years ago, never forgotten it - a domineering controlling girl who cried 'bullying' when the other girls refused to let her be top dog any more. Her mum would not hear any version of events other than her daughter's. She apparently mellowed with age and is ok now!

This recently happened to a lesser extent in dd1 group. They year 8 and had a remarkably calm and decent group. One girl sporadically picked arguments but then calmed down. Then last year she blew up accused group of “leaving her out” told the teacher etc. Dd was very upset and baffled. After school involvement the girl admitted to the others she had made it all up for some drama as she felt they weren’t paying her enough attention! The others polite to her but she is effectively out of the group now. Kids need to learn they can’t treat people like that others won’t accept it. She shot herself in the foot.

If you know the other parents then each send in identical letters saying the school is failing to safeguard your dds by demanding that they include a known bully who has already caused many upsets and problems within an otherwise stable happy friendship group. The girls do not want to be bullied (I assume she tries something dodgy every time she gets to do an activity with them?) and do not want to take the risk of the bullying being escalated (do you know how bad she got at her other school or what was the thing that triggered her changing school in case she might do the same to your dds?). I don’t know how big the school is - it sounds quite small - ask if she can be moved into a different class to protect your dds. If that is not possible then ask that she is not made to work in a group with your dds as is currently happening as it is causing them to be stressed and is detrimental to their education.

If you all do it as a group they can’t play you off against each other.

But make sure that you say it’s a safeguarding issue because that changes the way the school handles if - it’s official, has to be recorded and purport back to you, it can’t be brushed under the carpet in the same way it can be when you say it’s bullying, even though it’s the same thing that you’re complaing/worried about.

Christ on a bike? These are 12/13 year old children.

Do you think they will all stay besties till they finish? One day it will be some ones else’s turn to be caste out and then they exhibit this exact behaviour that you adults taught them.

No wonder the teacher is trying to mesh them back together as she will be able to actually see it unfold in front of her eyes which will be awful for all concerned and very destructive to class learning.

Rather than continue with eye for an eye why not try and show your kids how to develop some emotional intelligence? To be able to move on from petty squabbles and not hold grudges. To be able to identify when some one is using unkind words and not engage and encourage that person not to behave that way.

No wonder there are so many women chicken heads when it’s encouraged from such an early age.

Ffs! wibble

I went through this at Primary school. Except our Anna had been with us all through the school. She was physically a lot bigger than us, very loud and overbearing. She would pinch us and pull out hair when we didn't do as she wanted and dictated what we played and when, who did what etc. She could be verbally quite nasty as well.

This went on until about year five/six when we got fed up of her and cast her out of the group. Her DM then accused us of bullying her, and was always up at the school complaining. We were all hauled in front of the headteacher. I have to say though I think the head had a fairly good idea what was going on, and that it was her not us but this girls DM was very loud, overbearing and opinionated like mother like daughter obviously. Her sister was a few years younger and exactly the same. She then wen to a different High School to us to apparently escape our 'bullying', but I heard the same thing happened there. Funny that...

I now work in a school and see it all the time. It's very common. The the teachers will be aware and no exactly what's going on.

To be able to move on from petty squabbles and not hold grudges

They were far from petty.

To be able to identify when some one is using unkind words and not engage and encourage that person not to behave that way.

That's exactly what they are doing. They are ignoring her, that way she can't hurt them any more or cause more trouble. Seems to me that's the right thing to do to someone so intent on causing trouble.

It's what adults do - they avoid trouble makers, not befriend them.

They are not adults though - they are children. You are labelling a 12 year old child a trouble maker and encouraging pack behaviour. You are now encouraging 12 year old girls to ostracise another child. You need to be careful this isn’t aimed at your dd when they get older or she does something they don’t like.

I’ll be surprised if the school don’t take a disapproving stance to you and the other mothers that are cultivating this. It’s not productive or allowing any growth from any of the children.

These girls are heading towards year 9 which should notorious for friendship changes and upsets especially girls.

Yes indeed. The bully is now being bullied. Well done you.

I would never allow a school to force my child to socialise with someone who they feel has been a bully to them.
Tough luck if it upsets the other child. That's their parents problem.
These children were great friends before. Then this girl arrived and cause havoc and now they've ditched her they're happy again.

Where's the problem?

The girls are being allowed to stand up for themselves. I’m school they may have to work with Anna and they need to be polite but at no point do they need to socialise with her outside of school.

Yes she may only be a child but this is where her parents need to step in and parent her.

It’s is not to op or her dd’s job to manage this girl. It is her parents and the school.

We talk so much about how girls are socialised to make life easier for everyone and how they need to learn how to be assertive and stand up for themselves. Well this is what these girls are doing and good for them.

@Cottonwoolmouth I don't think you understand quite how awful the impact on other children can be when something like this happens in a classroom (unless you are also a teacher). They are all important, including Anna of course, but the emotional toll on a child being forced to be friends with someone they are often scared of is awful.

In my old school a colleague found a child hiding in a storage cupboard because she was too scared to go to her class because she would be 'made' to sit with someone who had made her life hell for 6 months.

It's not easy to deal with. I always encourage patience, kindness and for kids to be civil to each other, even if they've fallen out, but I would never force children together. It's not fair on any of them.