Which "class" - Lighthearted!

[dingdongdahlia]

So, my dh is very proud of his roots and is quite happy to tell everybody and anybody about how we're a working class family. Personally, I think class is quite an outdated concept but definitely think there are some things that are still considered wc/mc/us.

I've explained to dh that it's not as clear cut anymore and while he works a blue collar job, it's as much about lifestyle nowadays as your employment.

I say to my husband he's probably closer to middle class now because of tiny little things that make up our lifestyle but he denies it vehemently. I come from a very traditionally middle class family and he says he "dragged me down" (with a cheeky smile).

So, in the most lighthearted way possible, what do you think?

Dh works a very skilled manual job, he has an element of responsibility and although he achieved his role through an apprenticeship I would say his level of knowledge is pretty close to a masters in engineering. He calls himself a spanner monkey.

I have a professional role that is traditionally a middle class career.

We own our own home in a suburb of a city in the south coast. Four bed with garage, almost paid off (we're early 30s).

We eat out at least 10x a month at naice places and stay in nice hotels frequently as a couple (disclaimer: directly linked to my job).

We shop at Ocado and local independent butchers, greengrocers etc. Christmas meat is always bought from the butcher.

We have at least one foreign holiday a year with several other UK breaks throughout the year.

We have a cleaner (he hates this but hates a messy house more).

We have a bean to carafe coffee machine.

Our kids are young but it's looking like we will potentially send them to private school for secondary.

He snowboards and skis. Trying to convince me to take the kids on a skiing holiday (I'm not keen).

We own Barbour jackets (the wax variety that don't have the logo emblazoned all over it).

He's voted Tory in the past.

Obviously this is very lighthearted and a bit of a family joke. Just wanted to see what people think.

Couldn’t agree more, unlimited
And the old “club rules” still apply however much people pretend they don’t exist any more.

'The problem is that I'm not sure it is lighthearted. The class system itself however is not lighthearted and instead serves as a tool to oppress the vast majority of our citizens. It also makes people feel like shit...."

I agree with this but would add that unfortunatly much of that oppression comes from the 'progressive' Labour party members middle class. In other words it comes from what used to be called 'bleeding heart liberals'. Orwell gave some good descriptions of the phenomenon many decades ago

@AngelaSchrute I definitely am. I've been on MN long enough to take things in my stride. It's been really interesting to see what people say. A lot of things that would have been the markers a few years ago are now so fluid it is all largely irrelevant.

Personally, I don't care what "class" we supposedly are (it matters to dh though apparently ) but it's interesting to see how much people's definition of it varies.

As it is, to some people we'd be seen as posh and to others cringeworthy and gauche (no doubt clutching their pearls as they type ).

@Flaxmeadow I've nearly referenced Orwell a few times!

Has anyone pointed to Watching the English yet? It's a great study about class, humourous and very good for those of us not born/brought up in England to get our heads around things.

@dingdongdahlia Chesterfield!!! As soon as you said North America, I knew you meant the great white north ;-)

Working class people do not vote Tory, that's a vote for yourself not the better of society. Ski holidays and private schools are not readily available to genuine working class, your DH is deluded.

As long as my kids are brought up not to have a chip on their shoulders about who people are and where they come from, that's my main concern. Lords and ladies, people who live in benefits. We all bleed red at the end of the day.

Why start a thread about what class you ate then 🤔

Irish too .Married to English DH. Used to laugh at MIL defining people by class. She was a real Hyacinth Bucket.

But the real question is " Did you have to buy your own furniture?" as Michael Heseltine was described by Alan Clark.

Op, your first post screams that you desperately care about class. At least own it

@Hollowvictory as a mini straw poll to tongue in cheek show my husband.

@StillRunningWithScissors You got it, eh! Major differences between the two nations. Class and standing was a HUGE issue for my mother's parents.

Ah, here comes the ubiquitous 'chip on the shoulder'
Hardly original are you dingdung?

I don't think so. You're desperate to be declared middle class despite beig a tradesman family. Your whole op is trying to prove that. Why can't your dh be happy to be wc, why can't you leave him to that? Why would you show him this thread.

Apologies, dingdong bloody autocorrect!

@Meandmetoo Fair point. I would say I care because my dh has had a tendency to lump people who he considers to be posher than him with a negative label (we're working on it) and it annoys me that he's made such sweeping assumptions. Growing up his parents had to flog their guts out to stay afloat and while his parents are not like that at all, something has obviously happened along the way to have caused that with him.

Having been brought up in (though I'm sure many of you wouldn't agree!) a middle class household, it feels a bit like he's negatively viewing me and my background. That it was bad or made me stuffy. If he truly thought those things he obviously wouldn't have married me though. I think sometimes he gets upset thinking I could have "done better", "had more", blah blah blah. My family are significantly richer than us, but struggle equally as much to stay afloat sometimes.

I guess I was trying to prove, if there were so-called indicators to show him that I have very much a similar lifestyle now as I did growing up and by point he's enjoying it, does it make it all that bad to be in the realms of "middle-class".

Bit convoluted but hopefully explain that this was started in good jest and without nefarious intentions to stir up drama.

Class in not entirely linear. There's an offshoot called 'insufferably smug'.

OP, you’re just looking for reassurance

I tell you what the Moravians (I think) told John Wesley, “Preach faith until you have it.”

And all that stuff about ducks ... walk like the middle class duck you are, and everything will be just fine.

"As long as my kids are brought up not to have a chip on their shoulders about who people are and where they come from, that's my main concern"

You definitely need to stop going on about class then, and trying to convince dh he isn't working class (he is, as he works) it's really distasteful and your DC will pick up on it sadly.

“Working class people do not vote Tory,“

They certainly do-and always have done.

'My family are significantly richer than us, but struggle equally as much to stay afloat sometimes.'

You come from a rich family and say you're middle class. What do you mean by struggle?

Probably lower middle class.

Your lifestyle is very comfortably middle class. That doesn't mean he isn't working class by background, though.

I am working class by background and now live a very middle class lifestyle too. The background thing does matter - it is a very, very different context from growing up middle class. But I think there comes a point where you have to recognise that, while you will always be raised that way, your actual lifestyle in the present is of a different class.

It’s indicative by the fact that you are affluent but your throw your money around (house, earring out, coffee machines, Barbour jackets etc) instead of sending your children to prep school (what upper middle class people do while not turning the hearing on all year in their grubby exclubcil house they’re renting)

@Flaxmeadow Larger paycheque, larger outgoings. Bigger house, school fees, more expensive cars with bigger bills. Though I have to say I think, one sibling in particular, probably hams it up a lot.

If we ever do anything like book a holiday or redecorate they'll make a snarky "Oh, can't be doing too badly then. No pleading poverty from you!" then whinges they has to shop at Lidl and how expensive things are, how lucky we are to be so comfortable (usually from dh working lots and lots of overtime). Then in the same breath says how they've just bought one of their dcs a brand new car, taxed and insured it (for context the dcs are a similar age to me).

Writing that, totally understand why my dh has that "chip" tbh.

@downcasteyes Totally agree with you on that. Things that were just "normal" for me are alien for dh. When I met him he'd been abroad once on a booze cruise and had could count on one hand the amount of times he'd eaten at a restaurant.

A lot of our lifestyle pushes him out of his comfort zone and much like rocking up to a place setting with 43 sets of cutlery, there's a little niggle to him of doing something wrong and showing me up. All the while in sat there with my elbows on the table.