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I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland

999 replies

Persimmonn · 13/03/2019 10:30

I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc. But I finally watched the documentary yesterday and it’s hurt me a lot. I feel like I was lied to my whole life. I know it sounds so melodramatic and selfish but MJ was my idol growing up. I remember being 7 years old and dancing and singing his songs.

Now I feel sick to the core. If Wade Robson and James Safechuck are lying, then they’re incredibly good liars.

MJ was a paedophile.

OP posts:
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LunafortJest · 14/04/2019 13:18

@ccmrob12 "Be interesting to know if there any recourse on this with the criminal system in America and see if/when they get charged with perjury? If they don't then we can safely assume that the district attorney doesn't feel they were lying the first time around so would logically be lying now."

As I said above, NO district attorney or court anywhere will go after VICTIMS who were forced to lie. That is common sense 101.

ccmrob12 · 14/04/2019 13:22

You are just ranting now. Can’t you just make all your points in one post? Stop making things up. There was one train station, unless you can post evidence to the contrary. There was train before the station. When the news broke about the dates, which Dan Reed himself admitted was right, someone got the documents from the planning office which shows them stamped 1993. So no it was not there in 1990. It was started in 1993 and not finished until 1994.

Please get your facts right before ranting.

LunafortJest · 14/04/2019 13:22

@ccmrob12 "change the story 5 times".
Neither of them have changed their story 5 times. That is a lie.

LunafortJest · 14/04/2019 13:31

@ccmrob12 Sun 07-Apr-19 14:19:13
@bettyshine so if you were offered money instead of pushing through a trial which meant your abuser would face justice if found guilty, you would take the money let them get away scott free? Wow!

Lets re-word that:
If you were offered the chance to go to trial to restore your name against false accusations, you would just give them the money let them get away scott free? Wow!

LunafortJest · 14/04/2019 13:35

@ccmrob12 "I find astounding that Robson has changed his story at least four times since he made the complaint in 2013. Who does that is they are telling the truth?? "
He didn't change his story 4 times.

ccmrob12 · 14/04/2019 13:35

Luna stop ranting on on old posts.

I’ve already addressed that in the post above why the payment was made.

Wade Robson is on his 4th amended claim since 2013. He kept changing his story when the judge challenged points in his documents. I’ve posted links that link to the documents which prove this.

LunafortJest · 14/04/2019 13:36

"Wade Robson has amended the court documents four times since he made his first complaint 1993, each time something was challenged."

Where did you hear that? Do you have a reference for this?

ccmrob12 · 14/04/2019 13:43

I have posted links already, but I will post the specific document which shows this was the case, because I'm nice like that.

It states that the plaintiff it on his 4th amended complaint.

I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland
I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland
LunafortJest · 14/04/2019 13:55

"The fact that goal posts keep moving"

Only by the fans who demand more evidence the scurry to try to find any wholes to pick.

"the fact the waited until they were sure they couldn’t be sued for liabel"

They couldn't be sued for libel anyway, unless Jackson was proved not to have done it. And you can't prove someone 'innocent', only 'not guilty beyond reasonable doubt'.

"the clear and obvious holes in the story"

There are no 'clear and obvious holes in the story', only 'gotchas' from fans who initially thought they had something to discredit them with, but each time e.g train station, it is cleared up and the fans are left with nothing, it wasn't the 'gotcha' they hoped for, so they move the goal posts once again and go looking for something else to discredit. But as we have seen, they've gotten no where, and more evidence is coming out in the mens' favour, such as the newsreel showing Jackson and Safechuck looking at rings - which PROVES Safechuck was telling the truth!!!

"court testimonies blow the most recent version of events out of the water"
Actually no they don't.

"other witness testimony of people who were there, etc etc."

Yes, such as people who worked for him who testified seeing Jackson naked with boys. A STRANGER on a train, who gave no name and sought no money, who reported strange noises from a private room in a carriage on a train. Etc etc etc!

"He was meant to have spent nights with 1000s of kids apparently yet only five come forward and say he abused them. If he was such a serial abuser would there be a lot more, even more so with the me too movement?"

Your argument is juvenile, simplistic and desperate. An abuser doesn't abuse every single child they come across. They invest considerable time grooming a family. That takes time. He spent many hours with and on the phone to Safechuck. In addition, 2 more have come forward since the documentary aired according to an FBI agent. Regardless of how many or how few, it does NOT mean these 2 men are lying. Or the (at least 20 by many accounts) of boys who have been paid off aren't lying.

"Tells me it’s the few who are wanting to make a quick buck and trying push the buttons of the public to gain sympathy to their financially driven cause."

No, this tells me you are desperate to move the goal posts and have an answer for and excuse for everything. If there is too few, it must mean it's not true (a counter argument can be made that considering it is not many, it is altruistic and less likely to be a 'bandwagon effect'. But if there is too many, you would argue they are ALL jumping on the bandwagon for money. They can't win with you, you have been brainwashed by Jackson and have made up your mind he was innocent so you will find ANY angle, regardless of side, to create a 'hole' to then create a narrative for which you can argue. It is strange though how you don't acknowledge the newsreel of Jackson and Safechuck looking at rings is something in his favour. You only look at (what you think are) holes, but conveniently ignore something that backs them up.

"Are you forgetting Wade Robson called himself the master of deception and was quoted that this case would make him relevant again."
Where are you getting that from? A tabloid? Many victims will say that they themselves put on a mask, are able to fool people that they are ok, despite dying inside. Master of deception would be something a victim admits they are, because they are good at hiding what they feel. It is strangely telling of the reaching required for you to see that in a negative light when it can be easily said to be a statement of fact most victims would relate to. I would really love to see this source that proves he said it would make him relevant again. If it exists.

FoxFoxSierra · 14/04/2019 13:58

MJ lied too! Watch the Martin Bashir interview and see how convincing he is when he denies having plastic surgery! He is also adamant that his 3 very white children are biologically his and that his youngest child's mother was black, if the facts weren't staring me in the face I would have completely believed him. There are lots of theories on why a victim of abuse would lie and get details wrong but it is much much more concerning when an adult in a position of power does it

LunafortJest · 14/04/2019 14:00

@ ccmrob12 "Also, Wade said it was just him and Michael at times he said he was abused, he his sister testified on sworn statements to she she was with them."

Yes, he said it was just him and Michael WHEN he was abused. Ie his sister wasn't there, WHEN he was abused.

ccmrob12 · 14/04/2019 14:04

You asked for the evidence to back up what I was saying, are you just going to ignore that point or would you like to admit you were wrong? You are ranting hysterically and firing things off which are your best guess without evidence. Can you back any of your ranting up with facts??

LunafortJest · 14/04/2019 14:05

"So you haven't seen the testimonies of the McCulkin brothers, Corey Feldman, Taj Jackson, Stephanie Mills, Emmanuel Lewis, Mark Lester"

You realise that all paedophiles have people who testify in their favour, right? Do you really think these testimonies prove ANYTHING? All they prove is that Jackson didn't abuse them. It does not mean he didn't abuse these two men.

"I'm not talking about how much they have made, I am talking about how much they stand to by suing the estate. Always about money."

Strange you forget how much the estate stands to lose by being sued, and how much his family who live off that estate, stand to lose. As someone said elsewhere, with the Jacksons, it's always about money and protecting their investment.

"We he went to court, all this overwhelming evidence was shown, and yet he was still cleared on all 14 counts."
So was OJ Simpson. It proves nothing other than there are two standards, one for us ordinary people, and another for the rich and famous. All it shows is he got off because of who he is.

ccmrob12 · 14/04/2019 14:10

I have fox and you are right I cringed there also. I never said he was not truthful about certain things. I can be sure he wasn’t lying about the abuse, however what I am basing my judgement on is the fact these two and the other children were found to be lying specifically about their version of events or I have other issues with how things went down which makes me not believe them. If you are telling the truth then there is no need to lie is there?

Also people who were around him at the same time who did know him testified he was not abusing kids. People who had called out sexual abuse or who were abuse victims themselves as well so would be very capable of calling out shady behaviour.

I am just forming my option on facts not because MJ was a good singer or said he didn’t do it.

LunafortJest · 14/04/2019 14:18

@ccmrob12 That upload of Safechuck saying in 2005 he was a bad man and in 2013 saying he realised then is not the 'gotcha' thing you are after. You seem to be desperately flailing about looking for dates, grasping at anything, and not realising nuance. He never told his mother everything in 2005. And you can realise you were abused in some way, but not realise the FULL EXTENT of it until 2013. Sorry, but you've got nothing there.

Also, where is your evidence for the Judges claim in your post Wed 10-Apr-19 16:12:51? By that I mean, where did you get that upload from?
(I apologise if you've answered further on in this thread, I've been away on holiday for a bit over a week, and am now just catching up with all emails, board forums etc)

ccmrob12 · 14/04/2019 14:18

He didn’t get off because of who he is. He had a prosecutor, the FBI, Santa Barbara pd, even the jury wanting him to be guilty.

A few pages back I posted a link to documentary from the biography channel. On there was interviews with the jury. They wanted to find evidence but they said there wasn’t any. Watch if for yourself if you don’t believe me. You won’t because you aren’t interested in anything other than MJs guilt.

Stop comparing this to OJ Simpson, if you actually bother to look into both you will see why they are different.

LunafortJest · 14/04/2019 14:19

@ccmrob12 Re Oprah deleting things, it turns out that was fake news from the superfans who lied about that. She hasn't deleted anything, they are still on here site.

LunafortJest · 14/04/2019 14:25

He was found not guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Not exactly cleared.

"In 1993, he was faced with a civil case and a legal case, both surrounding the same accusations. MJ didn't pay anything to Chandler, his insurance did."

That is another lie. It turns out his insurance did NOT pay any money to Chandler, indeed his insurance did not even cover that. This is another myth that fans have made and created life to, but his insurance company did NOT pay for it.

ccmrob12 · 14/04/2019 14:32

I’ve seen the document in which was stated the insurance company made the payment in 1993. Are you saying that was fabricated also?

Are you just going to deny everything as made up nonsense, people have official documents to back up claims.

I referred to social media. She deleted posts from her social media. I personally saw links on her Twitter which are no longer there. The day after she makes a posting addressing it.

LunafortJest · 14/04/2019 14:33

"In another note, dated August 2013 – five months after filing the lawsuit — Robson, who was vying to be a meditation teacher, typed: 'My story of abuse and its effects will make me relatable/relevant.' "

Where did you get this from?

LunafortJest · 14/04/2019 14:35

"Well she removed it all from her social media, was called out for it, then the next day this appears. Hmm....I stand by what I posted, again!"

Stories of her having removed it were around a week or so back, before she even made that statement. The fact is, she NEVER removed anything. People on another forum showed that they were all still there, and posted proof they were all still there, and this was before Oprah was even told about this fake news in order to make that statement. Nothing was removed. The superfans were caught out lying, again. As usual.

Sagradafamiliar · 14/04/2019 14:39

Cc the amount of times you've used the term 'ranting' and 'hysterically ranting' points to you being a raging misogynist!

ccmrob12 · 14/04/2019 14:42

Luna. I have posted to everything I have claimed.

That is from Wade Robson’s own diary. He was forced to hand it over to the court, and he only did so when he was ordered. He tried hiding them, and his emails because they revealed inconsistencies and facts he didn’t want the courts to know and that’s when he started making amendments to his testimony.

I’m a 100% convinced of MJs innocence via proxy as I’m 100% convinced Wade is lying through this alone. Why hide things if you are telling the truth? if anything, your diary should be used to help your case not damage it, as it has done in Wades case.

ccmrob12 · 14/04/2019 14:45

Sagrada I’ve used the term hysterically ranting once, don’t exaggerate. I think Luna’s post after post after post could easily be described as ranting. It’s not formed or constructed well at all.

Hysteria surrounded this is plain for all to see if you take a stand back and judge this without bias. I’m not the only one who has said so.

LunafortJest · 14/04/2019 14:47

I am read perusing themichaeljacksonallegationsblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/2017-06-26-estate-notice-of-summary-judgement-redacted-wm1.pdf
yet it is very long and all I can see is the JACKSONS LAWYERS summary of judgement and it mentions a claim being thrown out because of statute of limitations. It is far too long to read (I think I'm about a quarter of the way there) but please direct me to the section that says "the claimant is on his 4th amended complaint. You will also see that Judge Beckloff dismissed Robson's claims against the estate. Robson claimed that he didn't know about MJ's estate, hence the delay in putting the complaint in. That's not possible considering he was at the funeral and was a close family friend. As such the judge considered him to be lying under oath, again."

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