Private renting so much more than housing association!

[Generationrenter]

Just moved to a new build and the rent is £1300pm, neighbours are HA tenants and paying £500 for the exact same house. We both earn around the same amount.

I’m not saying their rent should be more and think HA properties are great (I’ve been on a waiting list for 6 years as renting is bankrupting me so certainly not knocking it!) but surely efforts should be made within budgets that make HA rents so low to reduce private rents?

I know private renting has become so unaffordable but is there anything that can be done? £800 difference a month for the same house just seems insane!

Guess it is just a vent but it doesn’t make sense to me!

Lifetime tenancies are ending

I think this is a mistake. Private renting is shit. There are far more greedy, unscrupulous buy to let LLs than there are decent, reputable LLs. I'm currently in a HA and on a low income but working towards qualifications to increase my earning power. If taking a new, higher paid job meant I had to go back to private renting I would decline the job and stay on a low wage.

Nothing and no-one would make me go back to private let where I face the possibility weeks with no hot water, poor insulation, windows rotting in their frames, damp and mould, lack of ventilation, windows that won't open, section 21's because they want to move their GF and her kids in, excessive and intrusive inspections, and all the other crap I've put up with off buy to let LLs in the past. I'd rather be poor for the rest of my life and securely housed.

I completely understand where you’re coming from. My private rent is £995, my mum lives 6 doors down in a council property and hers is £450.

For me though cost is a secondary issue. I’m stretched financially but if I was able to decorate to make it more homely for my dcs and have a secure long term tenancy I’d be happy. I hate living in a magnolia house I could be served notice on at any time. It’s depressing

And if rents increased in HA properties once you earn a certain amount

Pay to stay was scrapped. People seemed to think the extra money would go back into housing when it was going to go straight to central government.

Still it might have made 'these people' as you put it back in their place.

You forget these houses are let as an empty shell. It costs a fortune to decorate and kit a house out. Private it's done for you with a helicopter landlord who won't let you stray from boring coloured walls you're not allowed to put pictures up on. Landlords who can chuck you out at will. It's a bit of a tantrum really just because you haven't been offered one yourself.

No more checking your neighbours bowl to make sure he's got enough these days.

Far as I can see, HA and LHA rates is what rent 'should' be, yours is as much as the landlord can get.

I don't think lifetime tenancies are ending, I signed one 2 weeks ago after 12 months probation. I agree I would rather earn minimum wage and get housing benefit than go back to the uncertainty of private renting.

But I do agree private rents are high, my rent is £550pcm for a 4 bed with ensuite bathroom and family bathroom, kitchen, dinning room, study and downstairs wet room in the West Midlands, the same house a few doors up was for private rent at £1400pcm the difference is shocking.

I pay around 200 less for renting in my area. I know through the grapevine that my agency is trying to get the landlord to increase the rent because apparently I'm paying too little. If my rent went from 800 to 995 I'd be in a homelessness situation.
Evil bastards.

My sister pays 360 for a gorgeous two bed HA house
She has two large bedroom a bloody huge kitchen. Large lounge and a really nice garden and a driveway which is very desirable where she lived due to hardly any parking

Opposite a 2bed house is just been rented for £1250

They’re not always let as a shell. As I said my neighbours house is identical to mine - same kitchen, floor etc.
They were also given a £150 decorating voucher for moving - I don’t know if this is a standard thing accross all HA though?
I don’t know why you think I have a problem with ha tenants gamerchick I’m on the list myself and my neighbours are my friends.
I think it’s selfish to say that if slightly increasing HA rents (considering they are considerably below market value anyway) could help create more stock and help more people, that it shouldn’t be considered.
You’re not immune from taking a hit if it could be for the greater good just because you were once poor. Even if it’s not politically correct to say so.
People are always saying wealth should be spread, is that only as long as they’re not in a council house?
I like my neighbours, I’m not bashing council tenants at all, I just think something needs to be done about rents and seeing the huge divide in prices between HA and private, there must be room to do something.

They were also given a £150 decorating voucher for moving - I don’t know if this is a standard thing accross all HA though?

Usually you only get decorating vouchers if it's in a very poor state of repair, we got some once as the house had been almost entirely replastered so all of the walls were bare plaster.

I just think something needs to be done about rents and seeing the huge divide in prices between HA and private, there must be room to do something.

It's not a race to the bottom though, private rents are artificially inflated to account for profit but raising HA/LA rents to match isn't the answer. One answer would be rent controls and caps on how much private landlords can charge, for example a maximum rent of running costs + 10%

l don’t know why you think I have a problem with ha tenants gamerchick I’m on the list myself and my neighbours are my friends

Precisely, you're stamping your foot because you don't have one. Do your friends know you would like to pull the rug from under them?

SH was not ever meant 'for the poor' you have funny ideas about how it works and most houses have kitchens and floors. Do you think that fixtures and fittings aren't included?

What is SH for then? A lottery?
Times have changed, there’s not enough for everyone who wants/needs one.
What did you mean by saying it’s a ‘shell’ then? Furniture? I haven’t seen a furnished place for rent in years.

I totally agree generationrenter, we pay near to £1000pcm for a house that is identical to a HA one for £450pcm. I don't mind people in unfortunate circumstances using them for that price but when they then go on to earn more than me, it makes me a little bitter! My mom is a council tenant in a 3 bed house with a large garden, kitchen, driveway, etc and has been for 20+ years, she and my stepdad earn more than me even she said she'd be crazy to leave the house because she'd pay more than double in private renting. I don't blame her, I blame the system. We've never been a candidate to benefit from HA so we've always had to private rent, just stings a bit that there are people earning more that pay half what we do because they had poorer circumstances at some point but are now better off 🤷🏻‍♀️

I feel for you , I think there are lots of situations where I believe means testing should come into play . Social housing should be for when you and anyone else needs in and then you move on .. I don't believe in right to buy etc .

people will be asked to move on under the new 5 yr reassement tenancies as far as I understand.

No, they're not. New tenants might be but not people who already had one.

I agree, Frequency, I've put thousands into this maisonette.

And as pointed out, it's not just the rent price that puts people off private letting - it's the agency, the lack of repairs, the inspections, the restrictions (some places won't let you even hang a poster on the wall) and most of all, the endless possibility of being moved on in 2 months for the slightest cause.

When I rented in the US, the private rentals were all mostly owned by huge corporations and managed by another big company. No quarterly inspections, repairs handled efficiently, no 'I need the flat back for my GF you have to go'. If you wanted to renew you did so after the lease was up, usually with a moderate rent increase. Other than that, it was pretty secure.

Social housing should be for when you and anyone else needs in and then you move on ..

This is how ghettos are made. Best keep all those poor people in one spot, you know! And again, the problem is the laws around private renting, because it's not just the rent, it's the inspections, the random ad hoc rules agencies seem to make up as they go, the lack of regulation of repairs and still revenge evictions going on, the fact that private letting in this country is so unstable and insecure. If you have a social housing tenancy that has put your kids into a school where they are thriving you'll do anything in your power to avoid being told you need to 'move on' and subject to the 4 months security that is private letting (even with a 6-month tenancy, you can issue a section 21 after 4, 2 months notice, and even longer tenancies, I have yet to see a one that doesn't have that good ol' 2 month break clause in it). Fuck that!

How are ghettos made of social housing is spread around then when / if you don't need it anymore you move on.. I know many families who don't need it but stay in it and have expensive holidays and fast cars when there are people struggling to pay private rent .
I'll no doubt get flamed but I don't think it should be forever without question .

What is SH for then? A lottery?
Times have changed, there’s not enough for everyone who wants/needs one.
What did you mean by saying it’s a ‘shell’ then? Furniture? I haven’t seen a furnished place for rent in years

SH was affordable, secure homes for anyone. In a few parts of the country it's still like that. Single working men get a property where Im from. It was never meant just for the poor as people seem.to believe.

A shell as an empty house you have to sort out yourself. You still get something to shit on and a kitchen apart from white goods.

But the best of all it's secure. You can spend a lot of money on it knowing it's your home and you're not going to be hoofed out with 2 months notice. Why would anyone choose that if they didn't have to?

What did you mean by saying it’s a ‘shell’ then? Furniture? I haven’t seen a furnished place for rent in years

Usually bare floorboards, no fittings other than kitchen and bathroom (e.g., fitted wardrobes, sheds, etc installed by the previous tenant are usually removed), not decorated at all or else ripped wallpaper/peeling paint especially if it's been empty a while or has had work done by the HA/council, no blinds/window coverings, usually needs a good clean especially if it's been empty a while or had work done, kitchen/bathroom/toilet will be functional and working but basic.

I've put thousands into this maisonette.

We're in the process of having an extension built onto ours which will eventually benefit the council when they get the house back, at the moment that will be when we're old and either die or go into sheltered accommodation.

"I think it’s selfish to say that if slightly increasing HA rents (considering they are considerably below market value anyway) could help create more stock and help more people, that it shouldn’t be considered."

But you didn't propose to "slightly increase" it. You wanted to double it!

"E.g Ha owns a house and is renting it out for £500pm, private rentals at £1300
Instead HAs buys multiple houses there and rents them out at say £1000 pm"

What did you mean by saying it’s a ‘shell’ then? Furniture? I haven’t seen a furnished place for rent in years

As in no so much as a peg in the place and plenty which are 'superficially' damaged, covered in graffiti, broken glass in the floorboards, fleas or rodents, no appliances at all, no shelves or rails in cupboards, nothing at all in the place bar a sink in the kitchen and a toilet and bath (plenty don't have a shower attachment), often filthy, too.

A lot of HA are now allowed to prioritise working families over those who are on benefits, in order to create a more diverse social mix. We were 5th on the list for our home, but bumped to the top due to DHs earnings. Below the threshold for private rent, but above their 'low income' threshold. It also means we pay more rent, affordable as opposed to social, but that's OK for us as we can afford it. We've just completed our 1 year probationary tenancy and have just signed a 5 year tenancy. At the end of the term, if we are earning above the threshold we will be given another 6 months in which to find somewhere else to live. The likelihood is, we will be earning over by then (although they raise the threshold significantly every year, so maybe not) and although I will be sad because I love this house (and gutted at the amount of money we've put into this house, it is a total shell when you move in) at that point we will be able to afford a private let and another family will benefit from the house.

How are ghettos made of social housing is spread around then when / if you don't need it anymore you move on..

Because it's not spread around in a lot of places. It's always funny on these threads, there are people who 'know' all these people who live in social housing who earn loads and have hols and cars etc but they're never ones who live in the social housing themselves. It's uncanny. I've lived in social housing for 17 years now in 8 different places and have yet to meet anyone like that who hasn't actually bought the place long ago under RTB (or purchased it from a RTBer or several RTBers long ago, so it looks like they live in 'council' but they're actually homeowners). I mean, why wouldn't you? Then you can flog it off at profit and the mortgage is easy to pay off.

Just a rough figure though and I do think £300pm less than what your neighbours are paying, along with a secure tenancy, ability to have pets/decorate, know that repairs will be done etc is still an amazing deal imo.

Some parts of the country do have good SH, I’m assuming this is the same parts of the country that don’t have crazy high private rents so the difference in price isn’t too noticeable?

I think if you’re from a place where rents/mortgages are small, it’s hard to understand. £800 extra pm would allow me to go PT, pay off some debts. Maybe take my kids on a holiday and of course to buy a house.. it’s a huge amount of money.

The people being forgotten in the south are the squeezed middle.

HelenaDove Thu 07-Mar-19 16:54:22

HelenaDove Sun 10-Feb-19 15:31:48

We have had FOUR letters since New Year wanting access for some reason or another and its only early February.

To discuss changes to the flat doors for fire safety

Access so they can do a gas safety check (we are electric but still have to have it done)

The company doing the doors wanted access to tenants flats in the WEEK commencing 7th Jan. They wouldnt even narrow it down to a day let alone a time.
Then no one turned up.
They also wrote to us last August saying they MAY knock on our doors to do a check on a certain day. MAY is even written in bold in the letter so wasnt even for certain.

Yet moaned when they couldnt get access to some of the flats.

They wont be able to get access to flats all at even roughly the same time. Because many people work shifts. A lot of tenants who are working are in precarious low status jobs and fear taking time off especially if its zero hours which lots of them are There has been an erosion of workers rights and SH tenants dont have a lot of rights either so are often caught between a rock and a hard place.

We had a paramedic on our estate who gave up his tenancy and moved in with a relative because the HA were so inflexible with when they wanted to do things and he just couldnt keep taking time off.

I know some HAs can be flexible but ours is 8.am to 6pm Monday to Friday for access checks visits etc and refuse to budge from that.
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HelenaDove Thu 07-Mar-19 00:14:48

And here we go with no 5. Another access visit this time for a stock condition survey.