Private renting so much more than housing association!

[Generationrenter]

Just moved to a new build and the rent is £1300pm, neighbours are HA tenants and paying £500 for the exact same house. We both earn around the same amount.

I’m not saying their rent should be more and think HA properties are great (I’ve been on a waiting list for 6 years as renting is bankrupting me so certainly not knocking it!) but surely efforts should be made within budgets that make HA rents so low to reduce private rents?

I know private renting has become so unaffordable but is there anything that can be done? £800 difference a month for the same house just seems insane!

Guess it is just a vent but it doesn’t make sense to me!

RTB was an initiative to help people achieve home ownership and 'move on' from social housing when they were able to.

Is it the social tenants turn homeowners fault that a proper system wasn't put in place to ensure the supply and availability of social housing didn't fall as a result?

Taking advantage of RTB is hardly selfish and many people simply just own their home rather than turned into private landlords.

It was and still is a legitimate way to own a property for some people who may not be able to do so on the open market.

So by your reasoning, current social tenants who still cannot afford to own their home should pay for you and those tenants who exercised their RTB and then went on to become private landlords.

Social rents are subsidised £3,600 a year on average per tenancy

I still don't understand this. My rent is £386.60 per four weekly. My neighbours who rent privately pay £410 per calander month but their garden is twice the size of mine.

I pay £386.60 rent every four weeks. Actually, I pay £400 four weekly because I like to try to be in credit to cover me if times get hard. My neighbours a couple who both work part-time and have twice as many children to support as I do pay £50 per week top-up rent and HB covers the rest. Fair enough, they earn the same as me between two of them but have twice as many mouths to feed. I could if I thought the grass was greener work part-time like they do and have a few more kids but UC isn't gonna be pestering me like the pester them and I don't fancy the idea of wrangling twice as many kids or doing twice the laundry.

So, my question is why is it people whine about my rent being subsidised but my neighbour's private LL who receives £210 per month in housing benefit to my £0 per month in housing benefit is just fine and dandy and not a drain on the tax payer at all.

My experience of being an accidental landlord is that if you are covering a mortgage the talk of huge profits is completely untrue. We have rented our house out twice while living overseas and the rent covers the mortgage and repairs and that is it. Obviously it means that we are closer to paying off our mortgage and it is therefore an investment but there isn't lots of profits. This would be different if you owned a property outright but you would still pay tax on the profits the same as any other business.

I’m one of those terrible higher earners in a HA house
If the government did bring in a way of making me pay more because I earned more I would simply cut my hours down so that I was paying the same .
And most likely so would anyone else who had the opportunity to do so would .
I’m paying what is the going rate for my house, it’s not my problem that your rent is 1300 or that private rents are so high

And yes I will buy my house next year with my discount and I won’t feel a single bit of guilt about it .

Frequency, I think your neighbour's landlord and every other landlord who continually increases rent safe in the knowledge that housing benefit will cover it is a massive drain and I am honestly aghast that we are all handing over so much money to them. Your neighbour's rent is clearly not 'market value' if the government has to contribute £200 to it.

I can't work out how to quote but Frequency's post yesterday at I think 12.19 hit the nail on the head. Nothing in this world would make me go back to the shit I went through private renting. Instead of begrudging people their social housing tenancies why are you not directing that anger at the system that put you in the position you are in?

The market rent is what you can charge as a private landlord. The idea that housing benefit will meet any rises isn’t accurate. You might make a profit at that level, you might not. I let my house out when I worked overseas. Did not make a profit overall but that was ok as (like many landlords) my aim was to keep the property not make a profit. Markets don’t care if landlords make a profit or not - it’s simple supply and demand. Ultimately of course if landlords are losing money many (but not all) will sell up. So supply will likely decrease and rent go up.

Housing associations are there to provide affordable housing- ie rents at a certain level below market rate. They are given large subsidies from the government (in addition to any housing benefit to pay the rent) as we have discussed above to do this.

So public housing is a public resource that we all pay for. I don’t agree that you should get tenancies for life or be able to buy at a huge discount. They should be allocated to those in need (and we need to build more).

I don’t blame anyone for exercising their right to buy or for living in public housing when they could afford to move to private. But I can entirely understand why someone would be pretty angry about being stuck in private rented because of poor allocation of public resources (and an overall lack of them).

Private landlords are often rip off merchants. Not all of them but too many of them are and they price out a lot of people as a result. I don’t honestly know how they can sleep at night but that’s just me and that’s why I’m not a business woman.

Harold - you don’t understand economics. The market is the market. Is the food in Tesco sold at market rent or because so many people get benefits that they use to purchase it, is it not? What should we do- cut benefits off? That would lower prices. How about that?

I have a lifetime tenancy it's nobody's business. I pay for it. If you don't like it, get off your chair campaign against private landlords. Especially the ones that overcharge for shit accommodation and pack as many as possible into it then pretend they're doing a good service to society.

I don't think there's much interest in that, as those tenants are deemed to have less already - it's all about wanting more people to have less.

If Social Housing tenants were kicked out or means tested the snipers would still complain about whoever else was put in the property in their place. The grudgeful will always be able to find something they want others not to have, with their race to the bottom mentality. They feel better when others are suffering but aren't motivated enough to try to change their own situation so everybody else they can curtain twitch at is to blame

@MistressDeeCee Great post. Totally agree.

Can also just imagine the indignation and hypocrisy if i was to post about subsidized childcare!

Pretending to care about the homeless is another tactic used. The fact is though that the homeless person who then moves into social housing will then lose their faux concern and be denigrated by them for being a social housing tenant.

They couldnt care less about homeless ppl unless they are using them to suit their agenda or for emotional blackmail.

Mistress dc - it is our business though. You are able to have a secure tenancy for life at a lower rent because the taxpayer gives big subsidies to housing associations. It’s right to ask why you are getting the benefit of this when others more in need are missing out.

Private landlords don’t have anything to do with it. They bought their property themselves and it belongs to them. Housing associations are state supported and we all have an interest in making sure their resources are properly allocated.

I do understand why people personally wouldn’t give up a tenancy for life though- but objectively it’s not fair and I can certainly understand people like the op who are missing out being angry.

So maybe op should move to somewhere she can get a HA property?

You can't have it all ways.

Her neighbor has one. Not relevant.

They must be in short supply where she lives.

Not her neighbors fault.

What does the op want more? Stay where she is or a HA house?

If you want x job for x money then move. I'd get 30k more in London. I don't want to live in London. I'd have to sacrifice something.

Housing associations are state supported and we all have an interest in making sure their resources are properly allocated

Interesting. And yet when its mentioned houses are being sold off by HAs as holiday homes...........tumbleweed.

The usual suspects dont seem too bothered about social housing contractor fraud either.

So dont give me all that resources crap.

From a blog

"radical redhead says:
October 10, 2017 at 12:00 pm

"Myself and a friend of mine live separately in a Home Group housing association block of flats. Over recent years our lives have been made a misery of through endless, industrial scale building repair work. Admittedly, some of it has been necessary, but the bulk of it hasn’t.

I’ve become depressed and anxious about it. Sounds of drilling and hammers make me panic. My friend who lives in a flat in the same block has sometimes been in tears. He’s seen 3 changes of windows in 15 years.

It’s been literally like living within an active building site. Pointing has been replaced (much of it was in good condition already) and masonry has been replaced for different shaped masonry. I’ve had perfectly good doors and windows replaced. The actual site manager once said that they didn’t need replacing but that they were going to replace them anyway.

I know a tenant who left because of it. There is no doubt in my mind that unnecessary jobs have been undertaken simply to make money for the contractors. I have no doubt either that Mears and Home Group are in bed together.

I’ve written to different organisations pleading for help – no one’s interested.

So now, Mears Group are ‘testing’ the electric sockets in my friend’s flat. The flats have all been completely rewired from new approximately ten years ago. Maybe this is justified – maybe not. However, this is a company that has earned a reputation for corruption and shoddy workmanship, who’ve been caught and investigated by the Police for overcharging landlords. I am not paranoid.

I worry for the future because the block of flats I live in is so large that any job, big or small will be lucrative for a contractor.

The official term is ‘Social Housing Contractor Fraud’ and Mears are one of the key players. You can find articles on Google about Mears corruption scandals and it’s happening up and down the country because social housing tenants can’t say ‘no’.

Crucially, it only works if the landlord is complicit. This must take the form of bribes and backhanders being offered to senior management.

It’s a bizarre turn around from the old days of social housing landlords dragging their heels over much needed repairs because they were strapped for cash.

Today the dynamic is different. Now, many large social housing providers have formed cosy relationships with contractors. These contractors are parasites feeding off working class tenants’ rents. Rents go up to pay for it.

I’ve lived in council housing before without any problem. Since moving from council to housing association I’ve noticed a huge difference.

If my fears over new ‘repairs’ being arbitrarily created in the future, year after year prove to be correct then I’ll have no choice but to move. I don’t need the stress. I need peace and quiet."

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/clyde-house-residents-death-trap-14070046

Helena - at least if they’re sold off for holiday homes no one is getting a big discount and the housing association is getting market value. I don’t agree with that either if the homes are needed in that area. Not sure why you’re pasting irrelevant stuff from a blog tho.

@ijust. - we don’t have unlimited anything. Why should the op move rather than we allocate government resources to those who are most in need? That’s not really the answer is it!

I don't think they could ever build enough HA homes in certain areas because it's just too densely populated.

I think if it's that important to her, she should move to somewhere where there isn't as much of a shortage to up her chances of getting a HA property. That's just logical.

The OP doesn't sound "in need" she wants to reduce her rent. Of course she does, who wouldn't.

How do you even define in need? What are
You basing it on? Income? Number of dependants? Disabilities?

Anyone can go on the list. Anyone at all. You don't have to be a low earner or unemployed or even have any kids. Different councils allocate priority on different things.

@britney - I think the issue here is tenancies for life and rtb means there are people in subsidised housing who are far more able to house themselves than others who are unable to get a property. Housing will always be a struggle in some areas but building more and allocating better would help.

Ah now what I would like is for the spotlights put firmly on landlords for a bit. Maybe anything they take over what the mortgage is should be heavily taxed seperately (brand new tax to help pay for Brexit.. win!). After all they're being subsidised by the tenant (and the taxpayer if getting HB) in their investment for their old age or whatever, maybe they should get a little hoof in the knackers for a bit. Make this BTL business a right put off. Regulate the fuck out of it type of thing.

I'd like to see something like that.

Landlords do pay tax on profits already.

And?

Gamer It was just you said they should be taxed and I thought it worth mentioning that they were taxed.
On a separate note I doubt any landlord tax would touch the sides of the cost of Brexit.