Private renting so much more than housing association!

[Generationrenter]

Just moved to a new build and the rent is £1300pm, neighbours are HA tenants and paying £500 for the exact same house. We both earn around the same amount.

I’m not saying their rent should be more and think HA properties are great (I’ve been on a waiting list for 6 years as renting is bankrupting me so certainly not knocking it!) but surely efforts should be made within budgets that make HA rents so low to reduce private rents?

I know private renting has become so unaffordable but is there anything that can be done? £800 difference a month for the same house just seems insane!

Guess it is just a vent but it doesn’t make sense to me!

Generationrenter that is not a stupid idea, the HA in my area (who I rent from) have built houses over the last few years called ‘mid market rent’ properties, they are for people who do not have enough points for a HA/council property but can not afford the very high private rent rates in this area!
I noticed someone complaining about having to supply their own flooring to HA property, this is standard here also and I am quite happy to supply my own carpet especially when I know the previous tennent in my property was not the cleanest and had a dog! I am very lucky as my house is fairly new (12y) and in a lively estate! We could not afford the private rent here as so I feel very fortunate to have managed to get a HA property!

I only got to page 3 and I just couldn't read anymore aboutsomeone who's jealous because their friend and neighbour had something they don't.

We live in a very expensive part of the country, private rents are high, houses sell at ridiculous prices and we don't have a SH problem. Housing association new builds are going up everywhere but at 80% of market rent, these houses are aimed at working people and families, you need a minimum monthly income that you have to provide evidence for, usually over £2000 pm. So here it's the middle income families that get them, as long as your income is under £60k you can go on the list.

Figures from the housing and homelessness charity Shelter show that a total of 1.15 million households were on waiting lists last year, with only 290,000 homes made available, leaving a national shortfall of more than 800,000 homes

But let’s keep pretending we don’t have a problem.

Of course there’s some jelousy in it. That my neighbour pays £800 less than me for the same house. They both have 18 plate cars and nice holidays because of it, woohoo for them. People like soyasi get to become landlords and have cheap rent thanks to their council houses. But the bigger issue is that if they were made to pay their way a bit more, it could greatly improve the shortage of affordable rental.

Higher estimate of 51,000 people in council houses earning over £60k p/a.

The fact that if they were charged closer to market rent, the total amount saved would be £122million per year which could go towards building more houses.

Yes council houses were never invented for those ‘in need’ and anyone who wanted one could get one but times change. Some areas I’m sure are great for council houses, a lot are not. Hence the over million people on a waiting list.

Let’s protect the higher earners though, nothing new there.

As a PP has said the amount of people actually on 'high incomes' in social housing is a very tiny percent.
Put that in the context that you would then have to fund this new means test policy for housing and it is very unlikely to do anything other than reduce the money that HAs have to build more properties.

In fact there is nothing original about the OPs suggestion.
The 'pay to stay' policy was in the Housing and Planning Act 2016 but has never been implemented for council or HA tenants.

HAs were up in arms about the policy because they didn't have the resources to administer the policy and councils were best pleased about the idea either.

The Government then scrapped the idea Why? Probably because they subsequently realised that 'high income' tenants in social housing wasn't such a huge problem and the suggested 'fix' would cost more to administer than the income it generated. So they refocused their attention on bigger problems within housing in this country - property conditions in both tenures.

Inflated rent in the private rented sector is definitely an issue but as PPs have advised the fix is not to penalise or cause more problems for those who living in social tented properties - where life isn't completely perfect either!

You need to keep the higher earners in social housing, they have more disposable income so their houses are better kept (I'm making a generalisation here).

Where we live the estate is mixed, HA,Private rent and owner occupied. The houses that are housing association but the tenants are on decent salaries have homes that from the outside are well kept, sadly and I wish it wasn't true, the lower income tenants don't have the money to put in plants, baskets etc to make it look presentable. And sadly due to snobbery here you will be judged if the front of your house looks like a shithole.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it keeps an area's standards higher because you have the money and incentive to do what a homeowner would do, improvements.

Higher estimate of 51,000 people in council houses earning over £60k p/a.

Wow... 51000 people..
Let's screw them, fuck over social housing, make up ridiculous and expensive means tests that demonise and punish people for earning money.
Or we could help the millions in private renting with realtively simple rental caps based on either council Tax bands or LHA rates.

Is tax ‘demonising people for making money’?
You earn more, you pay more it’s the way the system works.
Imagine if someone suggested that someone working earning £60k shouldn’t pay as much tax as everyone else because 10 years ago they were unemployed.
It’s about freeing up houses and generating income to build more.
Obviously we need to do more about private rentals, I’ve singed many petitions on this. But, I won’t deny there will be issues once private rental is capped that will affect people, who is going to supply the houses needed for rent when landlords stop buying them and sell up?

Someone upthread said a mortgage would be more than a HA rent.

Not true.

My mortgage could of halved what I paid the HA.

As it is I've kept it the same so I can pay it off quicker.

You earn more, you pay more it’s the way the system works.

Not the housing system.

It'sabout freeing up houses and generating income to build more.

No it's about you being pissed about paying more than your neighbour. Would you be shouting as loud if roles were reversed?

My mortgage if I owned my house would be £1100pm. The HA rent is £500.
You’re clearly incapable of reading or just looking for a baddy if you think everything Myself and others have said is based solely on the fact my neighbour pays less.
It’s about the overall system, ways to enhance housing opportunities for all, the huge divide between amounts, the state of the private rental market and the exploiting of systems that are failing. Try and think critically and intently rather than throwing your toys out the pram because you don’t like what I’m saying.

Yes, and all of that will be solved by getting 13,000 people to pay more rent.

I've just gone and read your comments Op and it really does sound like you're bitter. What you're saying is that people who've worked their way up the career ladder should pay more rent in a HA property rather than have a better lifestyle. That's the way the world works, some people have better lifestyles than others.

Why should a 50 year old who's worked for 30 odd years, who happen to have a lifetime tenancy, which they may have got because they were top of the list, and pay £500 a month then have to pay double the rent to make it fairer in your eyes rather than enjoy a better lifestyle in middle age after working their way up. It just smacks of jealousy I'm afraid no matter how you want to dress it up.

Try and think critically and intently rather than throwing your toys out the pram because you don’t like what I’m saying.

Oh, the irony

I am not the one stamping my feet demanding my neighbours should be paying more darling.

Toys in pram - check!

You can keep insulting me all day and it wouldn't change the fact that I am happy in my 4 bed house that I financed myself. I pay more than a lot of other people do, for instance those who moved when the housing market wasn't so inflated but I still don't have the touch of the green eye monster that has clearly captured you.

Have a good day!

51,000 people earning over £60k. Where has your 13,000 figure come from? ThAts the amount earning over £100k living in council house I think. Which is a joke tbh.
People should try and better themselves, of course. But how people can take from a system that helped them when they needed it with no regard for others who now need it is beyond me. It’s selfish.
I’m not demanding my neighbours personally pay more, they don’t earn £60k anyway. I think in general high earners should pay more than less than half price to help fund more houses.
I’m not saying they should pay market rate - god fobid that would be horrendous, someone paying a normal rent- I’m saying slightly more to help fund more.
I also think if the HA’s have enough leeway to charge less than half what private landlords are to high earners, then there must be room to do more than they are currently doing to help with the housing crisis.

Why should a 50 year old who's worked for 30 odd years, who happen to have a lifetime tenancy, which they may have got because they were top of the list, and pay £500 a month then have to pay double the rent to make it fairer in your eyes rather than enjoy a better lifestyle in middle age after working their way up

I'm essentially the person you describe here. I'm nearly 50 and my rent is £700 p/m. I'm not a "high earner", I certainly don't make 60k a year but I am, for the first time in my life, comfortable.

According to some on here I should move out and place myself back on the breadline to give someone else a chance! Great, so I can struggle until the day I die?

I've worked hard to get where I am, I've paid rent and tax for many years now. So I have paid plenty into the system. When I die the HA will get my house back. It's not mine for all eternity. But it is my home. and I have no intention of giving it up. I also don't see why I should pay more rent than those around me who haven't worked, I've been in this house 15 years and my two HA neighbours certainly haven't worked in that time. Why should my rent be put up to place me in the same position as them when I'm working, paying tax and paying rent out of my own money?

13,000 is the figure from your own link - you know, the one that you posted - which is the lower estimate as to how many social housing tenants are high earners. The absolute maximum figure may be 51000, but they thought it may equally be 13000. Either figure is valid, as they are both in that document.

Asta that was good timing. You're a perfect example of what I was saying. You're entering your later years of life sorry if that offends but it's true and I'm in my 50s so I'm the same and you've worked hard, probably raised a family so now you should be able to enjoy the fruits of your labour.

What's the point in working your way up the career ladder if you never get to enjoy the years of hard work, the unpaid overtime to get you to the point of having a comfortable life.

One of my neighbours have similar income to us. If they went and put a new kitchen in next week but we can't because we just can't afford it right now due to still having a teen at home and one at uni, they have no dependants left so their disposable income is higher. Shall I stamp my feet about how unfair it all is or shall I just chat with them and be sympathetic to the upheaval and then tell them how lovely it is?

I agree that you definitely shouldn't be penalised for working hard to better yourself, Asta. Your fifteen years of rent, all paid for from money you have earned, has all gone back to a body that provides social housing. Together with the tax you've paid over that period, you have contributed plenty of money to society and will doubtless continue to do so for the rest of your working life.

QuirkyQuark I'm not offended at all. I absolutely agree with you. I've raised two children and now I finally have a bit of money I can spend on me. I'm also trying to put some aside for when I'm no longer able to work. I do think that by this age, and after all the work I've put in, I'm allowed to have some security and peace of mind.

People in HAs and Council houses do not pay half price. what they pay is 'normal' rent. How many times does someone have to post that before you understand that private rented properties are priced according to how much a landlord determines he wants to charge, which could far exceed what it actually costs to provide the service. HA and councils landlords do not work in the same way!

No one is saying that private renting is fair but expecting social tenants to take the brunt to supposedly create an equal system is actually quite selfish and misguided on your part.

The housing crisis wasn't caused by 'high income' social tenants so why the hell do you expect that to be the answer to the problem now; especially when the amount collected from this extra income would be dwarfed by the cost to set up the system???

Actually I think a lot of the social housing crisis has been caused by high earning tenants buying their council houses. Council houses for all ended with thatcher and her right to buy that put council houses into the hands of private landlords.
The private market was artificially inflated by governments, greed, investors, estate agents...

Social rents are subsidised £3,600 a year on average per tenancy, , along with government grants in place to build the properties and no tax due to the HA, you can pretend that the rents are the exact same that a landlord could charge, but that doesn’t make it true.

Tell you what OP.

Let's put into HA and Councils that means tested rental price change. Do it.

Now do it for private landlords too. They pay their mortgage, the rents dropped. They have a cheaper mortgage payments, the rent drops. They earn plenty of money, rents drop.

Good for goose, good for gander..

Oh but no doubt that will be somehow different...

I think that would be a great idea if it’s possible to cap private rents I am all for it! as I’ve said repeatedly
If they were able to achieve e.g a 20% profit max. However, I won’t deny this will cause a huge shortage of private rentals when they all sell up.

Actually I think a lot of the social housing crisis has been caused by high earning tenants buying their council houses

My ex bil bought his council house in about 2010, he earned about £17k and his wife similarish, I'd hardly call them high earners

I think that would be a great idea if it’s possible

Fab I'm glad you agree.

So when a landlord has a good income.
Rent drops
When the landlord hasn't got a mortgage on the property
Rent drops

Perfect.. we agree..

Now..

Ahem

Social landlord has no mortgages
Rents dropped.
Social landlord makes a decent income.
Rents dropped.

Perfect.. everyone's happy.

/thread.