Very intelligent but failure in the workplace?

[dublinruth]

I was a very clever child. Scholarships, MENSA, etc. Everyone thought I had an exceptionally bright future.

Except.. my intelligence doesn't really mean anything in the workplace. It hasn't translated to career success. I'm now ten years into my career, doing specialised admin work that bores me silly but pays OK.

Has anyone else found that being intelligent just doesn't translate into being good at work. I feel such a failure and see people I went to school with having great careers and can't help but to feel a huge amount of jealousy.

Has anyone else found this?

Don’t you think though that the good, analytical critical thinking skills and the ability to do thorough research and “know your stuff” should maybe be prized a bit more highly in the workplace, and how well someone shakes your hand or how confident they sound is not actually as valuable?

It seems to me that being just about competent enough to do the job, and able to talk a good game, while not being sharp enough to analyse and ask difficult questions is highly prized. And it’s to our collective detriment.

But all this talk about 'what is prized' (by others) is extremely passive. It's some kind of Rapunzel syndrome; sitting in a tower by yourself, being brilliant, just waiting for a Prince Charming to come along, recognise and rescue you.

I recognise that but as a very teenage 'if only someone understand me, the world would be well' attitude. Workplaces are populated by adults, many of whom know what they want and are striving hard to achieve it. If you're sitting about waiting to be recognised, well, why exactly do you think it's in anyone else's interests to do that for you?

If you want to reorganise the workplaces of the world to recognise your talents and integrity, you need to work out how you are going to achieve that. No-one else is going to perform that service for you. Why on earth would they go to that effort on your behalf, if you don't have the wherewithall to do it for yourself?

What might be useful on this thread, would be to compile a list of areas of work in which attention to detail, perfectionism, deep but narrow skills are prized and rewarded.

I'll start Lottie
Independent academic research but nowadays you must also teach well and hopefully be a good colleague and make some cross departmental contributions.

This is reminding me of the girl who was recently on The Island’. She was obviously quite well to do and because everyone at school and home told her how fantastic she was all the time she expected to just breeze into successful jobs. Guess what it didn’t happen because she wasn’t actually as fantastic as she thought. Infact the other Islanders called her out for being lazy.
So, sorry to sound negative but could it be you’ve been told for too long that your gifted and talented when in life that label has caused you to coast?

I wasn’t gifted and talented - just enjoyed learning and knew how to get good marks. And actually that pragmatism has translated very well into the workplace. And I certainly do work hard and am very productive. My problem is that being a jack of all trades has meant I have found it difficult to narrow down what I actually enjoy and excel at to the extent that I want to do it as a career. I am getting there though through retraining, and I am fortunate that I enjoy the job I’m doing at the same time (mainly due to having colleagues who I get along well with and we work well as a team - this is mostly down to luck)

Lottie, in the workplace, a lot of people get on fastest by chest beating and being popular. The talent gets overlooked again and again because it's ego that's prized. And many workplaces still operate a boys' club mentality, prizing male self-confidence and outspoken blather over quiet, secure skills in specialist areas. I don't think it's too teenage to want things to be different.

I knew I'd never fit in an office so work for myself. I set my own hours, if I'm stressed I take on less work, if I need more money I increase my workload. I'm good enough at what I do that I earn a living word of mouth, working from home.

Some skills that would fit a list of areas of work in which attention to detail, perfectionism, deep but narrow skills are prized and rewarded:

Copy editing
technical and medical translation
project research
IT troubleshooting
coding
business writing
legal, medical or technical copywriting

I have friends who do all these, working from home. Most of them, like me, don't quite fit in an every day work place setting but are good at what we do and sought out to do it.

I find it interesting what someone said upthread about a fairly middling intelligence sibling becoming a successful entrepreneur. Someone who perhaps has lower expectations on them in the conventional sense might perhaps be more willing to take risks to succeed and that is a key part of being an entrepreneur. There are many anecdotal examples of entrepreneurs who struggled at school or who say they had undiagnosed dyslexia.

I do wonder whether there are other factors at play here too. My personal opinion is that we don’t have very good careers advice in this country and that is really important if you are from a lower socioeconomic background. Similarly, is “emotional intelligence” really that or is it just the way we are meant to behave that is automatically absorbed by certain people in society but has to be acquired by observation if you are not from that background?

Being intelligent doesn't translate to people skills or creative problem solving. I never set the world alight academically but have a great job/earn well

Does this help at all: DH's mum and dad: teacher (former headgirl), engineer and organist. Both thought schol was the be all and end all. Scoffed at trades, scoffed at commerce, scoffed at people who worked in offices as boring, anti materialism. Counted o'levels and bragged about thejr children's achievements. All 3 went to a Russell Group Uni. Both DD's have never done anything other than menial work, o e in shops one as a TA equivalent. In our 20s their mantra was "ugh what you do is boring, I couldn't work in an office". Neither had any direction or any will to work for money with a much cleverer than thou attitude. DH on the other hand was very close to the neighbours, who were childless and lived a better life and was influenced to make something of himself in the world of work.
(Although his sisters regard him as a capitalist bastard and his mother does a cat's bum mouth every time she comes "people like us don't live like this.") Drains the joy as do the sils (one more than the other)

My family on the other hand - farmers and racing. Not an academic qual between them until mother met father. Loved nice things, knew how to maximise income, see an opportunity, travelled, socialised and taught me how to handle the labourers and the local gentry. At 17 I could dress, make small talk, drive a car, ride a horse, shoot straight, type and boil an egg. MIL regards me as thick as mince.

I dropped out of uni but earnt 6 figures for 10 years from the mid 80s, retrained at 43 and at approaching 60 am on 6 figures again. I have learnt I am clever, not a genius but alright. Much of success is about relationship mgt and that is what I'm very very good at but it's what my family taught me almost like an apprentice.

The academics help but they don't teach work or life skills. And without the life skills, expectations, drive and confidence the academics aren't enough. DH was 27 when we met. I had to teach him to work a room, top up a glass, carve a joint, use his irons properly, and sort out his wardrobe. TBF he wasn't that bad but he wasn't polished and in his field he had to be. He has a brain the size of a planet but he needed that little push to do the social stuff - which he still hates but I have no doubt it tripled his earning power on the way up. Now he has a reputation it doesn't matter a jot.

Overall I think the academics are important and the life/social skills are important. But I think you can be more successful with the latter alone than with just the former. With both the world's your oyster.

Looking at our two DS is alpha, huge network of friends, took a first, has worked on a farm before uni and a year for a small business after. Doing a masters, working for same small business two days a week and has one small business with a few chums already and has just bought a domain for his second

DD every bit as clever, introverted, has ADD, struggles with social events and prone to anxiety/depression. At an equally good uni but I doubt she will fly at work. However she and we know that and already she is looking at careers that will suit her - academia, curating, possibly specialist teaching (she learnt BSL in her gap year).

So some of its nurture and some nature. I suspect one of the sils is similar to dd but because she was clever and her parents "quaint" it wasn't picked up and she was never encouraged to make the most of herself. At least dd knows to stand up straight and smile when confronted with a social group.

Look into career coaching as a way of directing your potential.

I do think the chest beaters get found out though at middle mgt level unless they are rainmakers.

“Being intelligent doesn't translate to people skills or creative problem solving.”

Well it might - it just depends on what definition of intelligence you use

I mean, I know I’m bright because I can figure out how to pass exams (which in itself is problem solving) and I am reasonably good at other problem solving and equally I am pretty good at getting along with people at work but I have no knowledge of MENSA or how one would gain membership (which some on this thread have mentioned)

I am not sure how one picks out a good career coach. Coaching is something that has been mentioned as useful to me, but I really wouldn’t know where to start to find someone that might help! I would say that I have some of the issues identified on this thread (lack of resilience, quite adept technically and creative but with other people often taking credit for my ideas and work, have passed professional exams which others haven’t had the guts to attempt but they are powering ahead of me in the job). It seems to me that there are a lot of coaches out there and, like most of us, they have to make a living, so I’m quite sceptical! I’d prefer to find a mentor, but that’s quite difficult.

I was like this at school, I have a good job now in finance (legal responsibilities and would be on 65k if I was full time.) But hardly setting the world on fire. I quite often feel I should have done more but I'm complacent (lazy) and I've been at the same employer for fifteen years. I wish I had done a different degree as I could have done anything I wanted and I chose English! Would have liked to have done a PhD but couldn't afford to fund more study after my MA.

The girl I used to compete with at school for top prizes is a partner in a city law firm - she must be on at least 200k (actually I have no idea, probably more than that!) But to be fair she hasn't had kids (or hadn't when I last looked) and I have 2. If I'd chosen to commit more to my career I might have done better.

ohtheroses I agree with much of what you have posted here but this sentence I had to teach him to work a room, top up a glass, carve a joint, use his irons properly, and sort out his wardrobe makes me despair - not only should your relationship not be a modern day Pygmalion but imagine that people with the intelligence to make a difference are being overlooked because they can’t dress well or eat well. I think Plato just cried a little

Yes and have been diagnosed with ADHD. Not an excuse but at least helps give me a framework to work with.

I was bright at school: in the top 10 for every subject, top 3 for science/maths subjects at a super-selective grammar. Straight A student (there was no such thing as a A* back then). Oxbridge then a PhD at another top university.

At which point I almost stalled. I was a good scientist, but didn’t really know how to translate that into a career. I drifted into doing a post doc. I’d met DH during my PhD. He has a very different background to me (privately educated, boarding school from 13+). We had our DC relatively young - in fact during my post doc.

I didn’t go back to academia after DC2 was born. Instead I used DH’s contacts to get an R&D job in industry. I joined on a 6 month temporary contract and never left. An internal position came up to re-train as a patent attorney and with some persuasion on DH’s part I applied and got the position. It turns out that I’m a very good patent attorney. I’ve definitely found my niche. I’m not expected to do any people management (although I do manage a sizeable patent portfolio). It’s always interesting. You need to be clever - it’s not possible to blag your way through, and my intelligence is valued. I earn a 6 figure salary doing a job I mostly love.

Looking back with the benefit of hindsight, I was incredibly lucky. I didn’t have the necessary contacts, but DH did. I found a niche where being clever is actually valued highly. I’m not expected to manage anyone - so I’m free to spend my time doing intellectually rewarding work without having to do the people management stuff I find draining. It could so easily have turned out differently.

I've just been reading the thread on AIBU about how the world is set up and built for men, and I've had a bit of a lightbulb moment. How many of these school high achievers/career underachievers are male?

My guess is that although there are men who did well at school but failed to set the world on fire, they are mostly disappointed at not getting to consultant/partner/MD rather than struggling on a supermarket checkout. (Those older men I do see on the checkout tend to be disproportionately BAME, which kind of backs up my point).

And my point is - this thread is a perfect demonstration of structural sexism in action. We have been penalised for being too female - as in not being able or willing to put the hours and the miles and the years in because we have families, spouses with bigger earning potential etc. - and also for not being feminine enough, in its modern incarnation: 'social skills' aka feminine wiles, coupled to a kind of cosmetic assertiveness that is carefully calibrated to seem decisive but not to threaten the men people in charge. (As an aside, what happens when one of these Stepford career women gets the top job? Two words: Theresa May).

So we end up stalling, having to re-enter the labour market when the flow is against us, looking for guidance that doesn't exist, and constantly blaming ourselves when the truth is, we've been up against barriers our whole lives.

Being a woman has never ever held me back and neither has being feminine.

It is much harder to be a mother and make the choice to work full time and “lean in” to your career than it is for a father. You have such a weight of expectations and guilt to fight against. And the bottom line - my dc would not be better off for me having a full time job and a promotion (as you usually need one for the other) than they are having me partially at home. So it is a sacrifice. Fortunately I find fulfilment from both roles, though I do feel sad for the career I could have had sometimes - the dc usually make up for it.

Hmm, not sure Teresa May can be held up as an example of an underachiever.

There was a tight knit group of four of us at uni who all got exactly the same degree on the back of similar A levels. One of us has had a stellar career; she was never the brightest or most creative in our group but she has excellent people skills, is hardworking and a genuinely nice person. Another friend has had a solid but unspectacular career; she is very hardworking but has a somewhat abrasive personality, which I suspect has held her back from the top. My third friend; who has not had a very good career, despite being bright and lovely, has I suspect, very much picked the wrong career fit .

And of course, the existence of structural sexism has never meant that some individual women can’t succeed, any more than it does for racism. The existence of a Maggie or an Obama doesn’t mean there’s no sexism or racism.

I think those of us who were bright, academic children are sold a bit of a pup, to be honest. We tended to sail through school and university hitting the various academic targets put in front of us and were lulled into a sense that we would always be high achievers and the world would be at our feet. But those academic skills and abilities only go so far in the wider world.

I can really relate to this - I got a 2.1 degree with management elements but I work in a minimum wage job. DH on the other hand did ok at GCSEs, totally flunked his A levels and now runs a successful business. I think doing well career wise has more to do with self assurance and confidence than academic ability.