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Original poster

Shamima Begum has her citizenship revoked

999 replies

KenAdams · 19/02/2019 18:48

How can this happen? I thought they aren't allowed to leave a person stateless? Not that I'm disagreeing, I'm just wondering how they managed it.

OP posts:
BrizzleMint · 20/02/2019 18:39

Then why would Bangladesh say she's not a citizen even they acknowledge she has Bengali parentage.

Wishful thinking?

I think it's unlikely that she will get Dutch citizenship, even if the Dutch government are feeling benevolent (and why should they?) I suspect her husband is dead as I read online that IS think he is a spy so I doubt he's been flavour of the month with them.

QueenieInFrance · 20/02/2019 18:43

Then why would Bangladesh say she's not a citizen even they acknowledge she has Bengali parentage.

Because they have no idea about immigration laws??

Humptydoo · 20/02/2019 18:45

She won’t get Dutch citizenship. Just like you can’t rock up and automatically become British. You might in extreme circumstances get permission to enter and stay in the country, but they don’t just let you take on a nationality like snapping your fingers.

Asta19 · 20/02/2019 18:45

Exactly. I don't know why she keeps digging herself into a deeper and deeper hole! Her lawyer seems a bit of an idiot as well. Comparing her to a WW2 soldier was never going to go down well. And her family are just sitting there silently expecting someone to bring her back. Where are the pleas to save their grandchild? Could be done via a statement through the lawyer if they're worried about being identified. But even that would maybe make some people feel a little more sympathy. Literally the only thing I've read re the family is the sisters husband saying that taking away her citizenship was the right thing to Do!

QueenieInFrance · 20/02/2019 18:49

Btw, just to make things clear, you can only get naturalised british when you have turned 18yo.

There is no way that she has acquired her British citizenship as she left when she was 15yo.
So she is a British citizen BY BIRTH. There is no discussion about that.

Also there isn’t such a thing as ‘claiming your citizenship’. Either you are or your u are not citizen of a country.
If you do get a citizenship because of the citizenship of your parents for example, then you ARE a citizen of that country. Regardless of whether you have been to that country or of you have a passport form that country. A passport in particular is only a piece of paper that you can get if you are from xxx. But ny no mean does it mean you are not citizen of that country if you don’t have a passport (see the number of British people who don’t own a passport but are still british)

Justanotherlurker · 20/02/2019 18:49

Her lawyer is a bit of a controversial figure himself when you look into his past, not really the best fit all things considered with the situation as it is.

Jux · 20/02/2019 18:55

Gosh, I almost feel sorry for her now, for themle reason th whatever advice she's been getting so bad. I've just heard the BBC saying the latest statement she's made to their on-the-spot-correspondent is that she repudiates IS and all they stand for, that she regrets her decision to go to join them and that she would advise any girl planning to do it not to.

So she is now saying almost the exact opposite to everything she has been saying. Does this mean she is actually getting some good advice? Do we believe her? Was she speaking under duress before?

Snowy111 · 20/02/2019 18:58

Am I missing something? Is this not very sexist? Lots of men have been accepted back but not this woman? And I suspect she wasn’t a fighter, more a supporter

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-47252164

It does seem a bit like double standards

I don’t condone what she’s done but I can’t help think that lots of teenagers make stupid decisions, not usually of this magnitude but still..

On the other hand, we can leave her and her baby to rot and starve like so many other Syrians, why should she be treated any better.

Very complex issue! I can’t decide what I think!

Saucery · 20/02/2019 18:59

They need to stop interviewing her and let legal/political process do its thing.

MadCatEnthusiast · 20/02/2019 18:59

*Wishful thinking?

I think it's unlikely that she will get Dutch citizenship, even if the Dutch government are feeling benevolent (and why should they?) I suspect her husband is dead as I read online that IS think he is a spy so I doubt he's been flavour of the month with them.*

Yeah, I know NL won't give her citizenship because she's not legally married and she doesn't fit the other requirements but if no one told her the requirements, how would she know? That's stopped her in her tracks anyways, and she's only said that after she found out Sajid Javid revoked her citizenship. What else could she say in front of cameras? If she says nothing, she's cold. If she says anything like I know I'll get it back, she'll be arrogant. She needs to keep shut tbh because this is hurting her. I don't know why the media is meeting her as if they haven't created this shit-storm.

How can IS kill her husband when he's in a Syrian/Kurdish/ISIS opposition-type detention camp? He's surrendered but you could definitely say he's a target still. Who knows, even his wife can't talk to him to know.

Snowy111 · 20/02/2019 19:01

Just to say I don’t think Syrians should rot and starve, I’m just commenting on the unfairness of the world - hope that didn’t come across wrong

MadCatEnthusiast · 20/02/2019 19:03

Because they have no idea about immigration laws??

They have no idea of their own immigration laws and Sajid Javid knows Bengladeshi laws better than their own politicians? Confused

I doubt that. I think SJ definitely knew Bangladesh would say this in order to seem harsh on Islamists and then blame them/the appeal commission that they ruined his plan to protect the UK because he's a Muslim, albeit non-practising.

Jux · 20/02/2019 19:04

Re citizenship: my mother and all her siblings were British Subjects, rather than cItizens. We think due to where they were born (in Continental Europe), and because their own parents (my grandparents) were both born in India in the days of the Raj. They all had British assports, theboys all fought in WW2 in the British Army, some continued as lifelong soldiers and did very well indeed.

It didn't seem to make any diffrence to their lives, being Subjects instead of Citizens. Maybe this woman is a Subject?

Justanotherlurker · 20/02/2019 19:05

Am I missing something? Is this not very sexist? Lots of men have been accepted back but not this woman? And I suspect she wasn’t a fighter, more a supporter

A lot of men didn't wait until IS was effectively defeated and was openly brazen about their motive to return. Trying to tie it along the sexism line is minimising this whole situation.

LarkDescending · 20/02/2019 19:05

The relevant aspects of Bangladeshi law are very far from straightforward.

The Special Immigration Appeals Commission wrestled with exactly this point last year in appeals based on a claim to statelessness, hearing expert evidence on both sides, and (with evident difficulty in a "finely balanced" decision) came down in favour of the Appellants whose citizenship had been revoked by the Secretary of State and allowed their appeal.

Judgment at siac.decisions.tribunals.gov.uk/Documents/outcomes/documents/DOC000.pdf for anyone interested.

In light of that judgment it may be relevant that Shamima Begum is not yet 21, so if steps are required to be taken at that age to affirm her right to Bangladeshi citizenship she has not yet failed to take them

humptydoo · 20/02/2019 19:09

Btw, just to make things clear, you can only get naturalised british when you have turned 18yo.

There is no way that she has acquired her British citizenship as she left when she was 15yo.
So she is a British citizen BY BIRTH. There is no discussion about that.

Mmm but children can acquire British citizenship by registration rather than by naturalisation. So children CAN become British citizens. It's not that you're either one by birth or else you have to wait until you turn 18.

origamiunicorn · 20/02/2019 19:22

She is the definition of a CF

Jux · 20/02/2019 19:37

It seems that a child of Bangladeshi parents is bAngladeshi automatically until the age of 21. As she's only 19...

So if we repudiated her first, then we did not render her stateless as she had automatic Bangladeshi citizenship. As they have disowned her too, it is they who have made her stateless.

Is that right?

MadCatEnthusiast · 20/02/2019 19:37

In light of that judgment it may be relevant that Shamima Begum is not yet 21, so if steps are required to be taken at that age to affirm her right to Bangladeshi citizenship she has not yet failed to take them

She's turning 20 this year as she was born in '99. The SIAC appeals take years apparently so she'll probably be 21 or over by the end of it.

MadCatEnthusiast · 20/02/2019 19:41

*So if we repudiated her first, then we did not render her stateless as she had automatic Bangladeshi citizenship. As they have disowned her too, it is they who have made her stateless.

Is that right?*

As I currently understand it
The UK have revoked her British citizenship with the reasoning that she COULD make an application for a Bengali passport/citizenship as she'd have automatic citizenship. Bangladesh are saying she's never had citizenship to begin with and aren't welcoming her... so in theory, if we're taking their word, they're not actually making her stateless. It's messy, you could say that.

HoustonBess · 20/02/2019 19:44

What has she actually done that's illegal apart from marry a twat? If that was an offence there would be a lot of people in trouble.

We should take responsibility for our own shitty citizens, not try to foist them off on other people. She's made horrible mistakes but she was also a kid who was groomed by evil people. Sounds like she's suffered a lot already too.

PostmanPatIsIncompetent · 20/02/2019 19:45

Also there isn’t such a thing as ‘claiming your citizenship’

I've no idea about Bangladesh but this isn't always true. My children are entitled to a non-British citizenship by birth (through their dad), but they have to claim it. There's a whole separate process to go through to claim citizenship, and then a different one to apply for a passport.

(I'm guiltily aware of this because we downloaded the citizenship forms about a month after eldest was born and 5 years later still haven't got round to it Blush )

jasjas1973 · 20/02/2019 19:46

Jux - No, she has to actively seek Bangladeshi citizen (assuming she is even entitled to it) IF she does not before she reaches 21, then she is no longer entitled to it, under their immigration law.

She has hasn't applied so therefore they ve not rendered her stateless, the UK has.

She'll win her case but in a few years time, when we've all forgotten about it - this is just that Javid stamping his leadership credentials.

Motherofcreek · 20/02/2019 19:47

I've just watched the latest video of her being shown the letter the HO sent her parents informing her parents she is having her citizenship away from her.

I think it's in really bad taste.

Yes she could still be a dangerous women who is a CF

OR

She coul be a stupid girl who ran away and could never escape and who is still being watched by other IS women. She has just had a baby. I still felt like an alien weeks after having mine. She might be scared her baby's life is at risk from within the camp of she is surrounded by IS women is she starts saying she made a mistake.

I was honestly a 'keep her there' supporter but those videos just don't sit right with me, I feel like something is off

CameliaCamelia · 20/02/2019 19:51

This country has been through enough

Remember the Manchester attacks? 🐝

Remember her reaction to being asked about the Manchester attacks?

Begum needs to stay where she is