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Original poster

Shamima Begum has her citizenship revoked

999 replies

KenAdams · 19/02/2019 18:48

How can this happen? I thought they aren't allowed to leave a person stateless? Not that I'm disagreeing, I'm just wondering how they managed it.

OP posts:
sunglasses123 · 20/02/2019 14:06

The Dude is spot on. This women does come across as entitled and stupid. Is this what she learnt during her education in the UK? That you can do what you want and there are NO consequences? Well shame on us. The family seem to have all piled in as well although I understand their English isnt that good so they keep away from the cameras. After so many years in the UK why isnt it but that is for another day.

This isnt a silly naïve 15 year old. This is a battle harden grown up who thinks she can pick and choose where she lives. The family and the liberals are now piling into this.

I guess the question is...

WOULD YOU WANT HER LIVING NEXT DOOR TO YOU?

MadCatEnthusiast · 20/02/2019 14:20

I am actually feeling, not sorry for her, not at all, but sad at how silly and stupid she comes across (especially as a product of our educational system). Spouting nonsense about going to the Netherlands and waiting for her Dutch "husband" to do a prison sentence there, without the slightest thought about why and how the Dutch would accept her, what the husband's position there would be as a known IS fighter, who would pay for her and her child to get there and live there...etc etc. And the child-like "it's unfair!" , not "well, I am asking my solicitor to look into my legal position etc" ...

To be fair, many posters on these and other SB associated threads have been saying the same thing as her so it's not really just her Confused
There really needs to be compulsory politics classes in our schools.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 20/02/2019 14:21

I felt sorry for her.

And then I watched her interviews....

MadCatEnthusiast · 20/02/2019 14:24

Clearly she thinks she's in love with him so all this talk about he probably brutalised and raped her is likely nonsense

So people can't be in love with their abusers and if they are, they've not been abused?

Asta19 · 20/02/2019 14:32

So people can't be in love with their abusers and if they are, they've not been abused

No, I'm not saying that but there are complex reasons why women stay in abusive relationships. However these two have not been together for some time now. Take an abused woman out of her situation and she soon realises she was being abused. They miss their abusers in the short term (which is why women do return to these relationships) but it's like an addiction and sufficient time apart allows them to see sense! Saying she was groomed/raped/abused fits the narrative of those trying to portray she's some kind of innocent victim. Just because he was a fighter doesn't mean he abused her. That's what they did to the Yazidi's, not their wives. I'll save my sympathy for them.

MadCatEnthusiast · 20/02/2019 14:53

No, I'm not saying that but there are complex reasons why women stay in abusive relationships. However these two have not been together for some time now. Take an abused woman out of her situation and she soon realises she was being abused. They miss their abusers in the short term (which is why women do return to these relationships) but it's like an addiction and sufficient time apart allows them to see sense! Saying she was groomed/raped/abused fits the narrative of those trying to portray she's some kind of innocent victim. Just because he was a fighter doesn't mean he abused her. That's what they did to the Yazidi's, not their wives. I'll save my sympathy for them.

They've only been apart at the very least two weeks because that's when he surrendered. It's still early days then especially when she's around other ISIS wives who are probably more radical and are telling her to think of her husband. She's not totally free. she's not innocent of being affiliated and having these radical views but context is also key.

Motherofcreek · 20/02/2019 15:29

I'm 50/50 on this

From the very first time I watched her on tv I thought her manner/attitude and language was off.

Either -

She is so far over the edge of reality she is still dangerous, arrogant and entitled and needs to stay where she is

OR

she is surrounded by ex IS fighters and could be scared for her life so is choosing her reaction and words carefully.

There is no softness in that women- what has happened to her?

SoupDragon · 20/02/2019 16:17

The UK isn't responsible for Shamima Begum's actions. The UK didn't send her to Syria and they couldn't stop her from flying to Turkey to then enter Syria

The U.K. absolutely are responsible for allowing the radicalisation to happen and she flew out illegally on her sister's passport so, again, the fault of the U.K.

The country it is certainly not the fault of is Bangladesh.

AnnaComnena · 20/02/2019 16:25

The U.K. absolutely are responsible for allowing the radicalisation to happen

How do you think 'the UK' could have prevented it?

Asta19 · 20/02/2019 16:40

There is no softness in that women- what has happened to her

I think she's been hardened by her life there, but I feel no sympathy on that score. She knew what she was signing up to. To a degree I can actually understand her detachment from the Manchester bombing. As distasteful as that is. She was never going to care about British victims. But, during her time with ISIS, she would have seen (and probably participated in) things like stoning someone to death. She would have seen Yazidi slaves, knowing what was happening to them. Countless other acts of barbarity I'm sure. If you take terrorist acts in the West out of the equation, you are still left with a very cruel and brutal regime where anyone who wasn't with them suffered and died. She still fundamentally agrees with that. She has made that clear.

For me not wanting her here isn't just about protecting the British people. I believe a Syrian life or a Bangladeshi life, any life, is of equal value to a British life. I don't want her here because I know that a) we can't manage her and we can't deradicalise her (I've said this in other posts I've written in threads about her). If I thought we could then my view would be different. And b) being in the West will give her far better access to network with those like her, recruit those who want to be like her etc. Just things like a stable internet connection and easy access to throwaway mobile phones (which security services can't hope to monitor).

There may no longer be a Caliphate but the threat is far from over. Otherwise why would everyone be so worried? We all know that they're planning to regroup at some stage so lets place them as far and as wide as we can.

Motherofcreek · 20/02/2019 16:48

I don't believe the U.K are responsible for her radicalisation. Her own father was seen at a hate rally.

SoupDragon · 20/02/2019 16:50

How do you think 'the UK' could have prevented it?

Isn't that what "Prevent" is all about?

It happened in the U.K. Ultimately that is down to the U.K.

SoupDragon · 20/02/2019 16:50

If you seriously think that dumping our problems on another country is fine then rather really is no hope.

AnnaComnena · 20/02/2019 17:11

Isn't that what "Prevent" is all about?

But in her case it clearly didn't work. So what else should have been done?

Her own father was seen at a hate rally.

I believe that was the father of one of the other girls.

PreseaCombatir · 20/02/2019 17:37

Hasn’t prevent also been repeatedly accused of racism and told it should keep its nose out and let the mosques deal with it.

AlexaAmbidextra · 20/02/2019 17:39

Isn't that what "Prevent" is all about?

Oh yes. Prevent. The strategy that Muslim groups have vociferously refused to work with and have railed against.

AlexaShutUp · 20/02/2019 17:52

I understand that the Bangladeshi foreign ministry has said that she isn't actually a Bangladeshi citizen. So I'm not sure where that leaves us....

MadCatEnthusiast · 20/02/2019 17:57

I understand that the Bangladeshi foreign ministry has said that she isn't actually a Bangladeshi citizen. So I'm not sure where that leaves us....

It seems she's now stateless and therefore Sajid Javid has broken international law. Bangladeshi Foreign Ministry are the ones who would definitely know if she was/wasn't a citizen, surely.

Justanotherlurker · 20/02/2019 18:06

It seems she's now stateless and therefore Sajid Javid has broken international law. Bangladeshi Foreign Ministry are the ones who would definitely know if she was/wasn't a citizen, surely.

Not quite, it looks messy

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47301623

Under Bangladesh law, a UK national like Ms Begum who is born to a Bangladeshi parent is automatically a Bangladeshi citizen.

MadCatEnthusiast · 20/02/2019 18:14

*Not quite, it looks messy

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47301623

Under Bangladesh law, a UK national like Ms Begum who is born to a Bangladeshi parent is automatically a Bangladeshi citizen*

Then why would Bangladesh say she's not a citizen even they acknowledge she has Bengali parentage.

Either they've got a more detailed law saying she'd need to be registered at the embassy at her birth like some parents like some countries do. Or they're putting pressure on the UK. There's got to be more detailed law for them to say that.

MillytantForceit · 20/02/2019 18:17

The Home Secretary knows a little bit more about nationality law than Begum.

But not a lot more.

Justanotherlurker · 20/02/2019 18:22

"Then why would Bangladesh say she's not a citizen even they acknowledge she has Bengali parentage.*

Revoking her citizenship was mostly about stopping her in her tracks (and pleasing the media/public). I don't think we are going to paw her off to Bangladesh ultimately.

There had to be a bit of time to consider what to do with her and we have it now.

They are ultimately going through the authoritarian shitstorm about balancing international human rights with national security as well

Humptydoo · 20/02/2019 18:29

In that BBC piece she says she doesn’t speak proper Bengali as part of her argument against being Bangladeshi. But she also muses about getting Dutch citizenship Confused

Look, I’m sure she’s far from at her best right now but this shouldn’t be being played out in the media. The bare bones of the story are certainly in the public interest but the trial by media part certainly isn’t.

AnnaComnena · 20/02/2019 18:36

She says she's never been to Bangladeshtheory

She had never been to Syria.

She doesn't speak Bengali properly.

Did she speak Arabic?

Revoking her citizenship is a life-changing decision.

Going to Syria was a life-changing decision.

this shouldn’t be being played out in the media.

Someone needs to tell her that, and advise her not to give any more interviews.

AnnaComnena · 20/02/2019 18:38

Don't know where that 'theory' came from above. It wasn't anything I intended to post.