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Shamima Begum has her citizenship revoked

999 replies

KenAdams · 19/02/2019 18:48

How can this happen? I thought they aren't allowed to leave a person stateless? Not that I'm disagreeing, I'm just wondering how they managed it.

OP posts:
BerensteinBear · 20/02/2019 09:12

I have never come across videos of beheadings etc whilst browsing online. So obviously they were something she consciously looked for.
I think she is an extremely dangerous person.

KingWillyWillyWeetie · 20/02/2019 09:16

We cannot, as a country, object In future when foreign criminals are stripped of their citizenship by wherever they came from on questionable dual citizenship laws and they won't have them back, leaving them for us to deal with.

The other issue I think nobody here is quite sure of (I’m certainly not) is whether she had to do something to affirm her British citizenship on turning 18, as she was registered as a citizen as a child. Perhaps the legal argument is something along the lines of that by actively joining an enemy state, she has somehow ended that registration.

Possibly a lot hinges on whether she was actually British at birth, or her parent(s) didn’t have settled status until later.

KingWillyWillyWeetie · 20/02/2019 09:17

But the government must be overjoyed that this has happened right now, to take people’s attention off Brexit Hmm

SaturdayNext · 20/02/2019 09:17

Her school, social services and the police were all aware before she left that she was being groomed and was vulnerable due to her mother's terminal illness and death, but did not tell her father. Had they told him he could have brought her back and made sure she had no access to passports. It really is quite disgraceful that we allowed this situation to arise and now want to wash our hands of her and dump her on Bangladesh, where she knows nothing and no-one. And all to further Javid's political career.

KingWillyWillyWeetie · 20/02/2019 09:20

was vulnerable due to her mother's terminal illness and death

That’s the other Begum girl. There were two girls at the same school with very similar names who both ran off to ISIS.

NotMySquirrel · 20/02/2019 09:20

We cannot, as a country, object In future when foreign criminals are stripped of their citizenship by wherever they came from on questionable dual citizenship laws and they won't have them back, leaving them for us to deal with.

Yes, if one of their dual citizenships is UK. If not, presumably they could be sent to the country that hadn't stripped them of their citizenship.

As a side-bar, citizenship laws are fascinating. Under Syrian law the baby's nationality is the same as its fathers. But if the father's country of birth doesn't allow for inherited citizenship, does that mean babies can be born stateless?

Justanotherlurker · 20/02/2019 09:21

But the government must be overjoyed that this has happened right now, to take people’s attention off Brexit

Oh of course its to take the attention away from brexit!!, almost like only 1 story can run at once.. Hmm

What such enlightened insight...

PreseaCombatir · 20/02/2019 09:22

She should be sent back to the UK so we can put her through our justice system like all other criminals
Who’s going to send her? Or who’s going to go and get her? How many people’s lives should be risked, just so she can be sent back?
Serious question...

diplodocusinermine · 20/02/2019 09:23

The only thing that should matter is the law. If that is twisted to allow Javid to revoke the woman's citizenship it will turn her into a martyr and she will become a rallying point for every disaffected British muslim in the country.

Budsbegginingspringinsight · 20/02/2019 09:24

Apparently there's mumerings about terrorist being taken and tried in the Hague?

I can't understand why they are free to wander about.

QueenieInFrance · 20/02/2019 09:24

The other issue I think nobody here is quite sure of (I’m certainly not) is whether she had to do something to affirm her British citizenship on turning 18, as she was registered as a citizen as a child.

The U.K. doesn’t ask for people to affirm their citizenship unless they are naturalised as British. You can only get naturalised as british once you are 18yo and over.

KingWillyWillyWeetie · 20/02/2019 09:24

Oh of course its to take the attention away from brexit!!, almost like only 1 story can run at once

Where did I say that? Hmm

PreseaCombatir · 20/02/2019 09:24

What’s the difference in this case, in twisted vs just being applied.

Budsbegginingspringinsight · 20/02/2019 09:25

Diplo another girl has also had her citizenship revoked.

PreseaCombatir · 20/02/2019 09:26

Why is Brexit even being mentioned here? Really Confused

HotpotLawyer · 20/02/2019 09:26

BerensteinBear: neither have I.

But I didn’t grow up in a community where my parents’ generation in Tower Hamlets had burning rags put through their letterboxes by racist violent thugs (I worked in Stepney then, it was a constant threat). A community which bore the backlash of 9/11 and as people tore the colourful Bangladeshi scarves from women’s heads adopted a more Islamic front, while clerics led through religious fervour and gave them a place to belong.

Add years of austerity to an already impoverished area, and a school that hides vital information and creates a safeguarding issue...

The Internet forums that Muslim youth use (normal social sites) are an obvious starting point for radicalisation.

Look how the fully grown adults in ‘Abducted in Plain Sight’ allowed themselves, because if the church context, to overlook the sexual abuse of their child.

This was a not-very-bright 15 yo.

I suspect she was, like her peers in the same situation in Raqqa, horrendously sexually abused before being married off to a Jihadi who was twice her age. No young woman is going to suddenly talk about sex and rape when the people talking to her are male white journalists with a camera.

She can’t de-radicalise herself.

I think she should be allowed to come back, be thoroughly de-briefed for intelligence purposes, interviewed for any violence and crimes she may have been involved in, and treated accordingly;

brookshelley · 20/02/2019 09:27

I’d be very wary of any idea that makes the way they lived somehow attractive or nice. I did t ‘being able to pick up the cutest guy’ is anywhere near the top of your agenda when you are at war, bombs dropping right left and centre and you fear for your life on a daily basis

There was an article from a journalist who pretended to be a girl online interested in joining ISIS, and basically the bulk of the recruitment was a fighter who flirted with her on Skype and told her how amazing it would be if she became his wife.

For a 15 year old girl from a restrictive community when it comes to sex and dating, I imagine this is a significant part of the appeal.

Whether the reality matched the expectations - well I doubt it but that's what got them on the airplanes.

She hasn't said anything negative about her husband or her marriage from what I have seen.

KingWillyWillyWeetie · 20/02/2019 09:27

queenie I think that’s pretty much what I mean, she was registered as British as a child apparently. Does that mean she needs to naturalise on turning 18?

(The govt has chosen some very odd wording tbf as in common usage ‘naturalisation’ means taking on the nationality of a country, so it’s hard to see the difference between that and ‘registration’. You’d think that citizenship was citizenship.)

diplodocusinermine · 20/02/2019 09:28

Presea, I guess that's what we have to wait for the courts to decide. My DH's mother was Irish - he doesn't automatically have Irish citizenship due to her being born in Ireland, he would have to apply. This woman does not appear to have Bangladeshi citizenship.

HotpotLawyer · 20/02/2019 09:30

Plenty of non Muslims in this country were appalled by the illlegal Iraq war: not hard to see how for British Muslims that would look primarily like a war in Muslims.

This has long long roots, and I have no sympathy for violent Jihadis or ISIL, but you can’t look at the easy radicalisation of a 15 year old minor without considering the context .

QueenieInFrance · 20/02/2019 09:30

Yes, if one of their dual citizenships is UK. If not, presumably they could be sent to the country that hadn't stripped them of their citizenship.

Nope the rule the U.K. has come up with is that people don’t need to have another citizenship. They just need to have the POSSIBILITY of another.
So that means another country deciding to have the same laws could just decide to strip a murderer/terrorist of their citizenship just because they MIGHT be able to get another citizenship, and then say to the UK that they don’t care, said murdered has to say in the U.K. now. No more extradition possible.

Which is exactly what the U.K. government has just done with her.
(And left Syria in the shit, having to deal woth a dangerous person, regardless of the cost we don’t want to pay) Hmm
I’m amazed at how things we dont to want in our soil are ok to do when it’s other people/countries....

Budsbegginingspringinsight · 20/02/2019 09:32

Clerics leading through religious ferver....

Clerics leading through religious ferver can mean a myriad of view points under Islam.
If the same community is going too flag burning organisations led by now banned terrosied group ... it's not benign religious ferver... it's extremely dangerous and which is why I believe those foundations were laid in house

PostmanPatIsIncompetent · 20/02/2019 09:32

"that we should leave ECHR"
Is it anything to do with EU? I know some people like to shoehorn Brexit into everything. But what international law/treaty actually applies here?

It was me who mentioned ECHR and I didn't mean Brexit exactly - ECHR is a separate set of arrangements to the EU. But plenty of people want us to leave ECHR, and contentious immigration cases tend to be their go-to examples of why. They also tend to crossover with ultra-Brexiteers because signing up to ECHR is in effect a condition of EU membership.

QueenieInFrance · 20/02/2019 09:33

she was registered as British as a child apparently. Does that mean she needs to naturalise on turning 18?

No she doesn’t. If she is born british, she is born british. Ther is no need for her to be naturalised. No more than for your own dcs to be naturalised on turning 18.
There isn’t such a thing as ‘registered british’. You are or you are not british. That’s it.

NotMySquirrel · 20/02/2019 09:33

I can't understand why they are free to wander about.

Presumably they've not committed crimes yet? There are thousands of people in the UK who believe IS ideology/are terrorist sympathisers but something legal can only be done about it unless they actually plan to act on that ideology. And then you have to prove that's what they were planning to do beyond reasonable doubt. Until then, we just watch and wait.

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