Shamima Begum has her citizenship revoked

[KenAdams]

How can this happen? I thought they aren't allowed to leave a person stateless? Not that I'm disagreeing, I'm just wondering how they managed it.

To those who think she was a groomed child - how convinced are you that she wouldn't become a groomer?

Truthfully I wouldn't want her living next door. Nor is it particularly fair to dump her on the people of Bangladesh.

What's the punishment for treason?

15 isn't that young, it's certainly not below age of criminal responsibility.

Those groomed in Rotherham groomed. Are they any less victims? Surely we can have empathy for victims of teenagers who have been groomed?

Or do we just write them off?

If the victims of Rotherham have committed crimes, esp against other children, then I'd expect them to face justice. The buck has to stop somewhere.
We know many victims of sexual abuse go on to become abusers. But that doesn't make it right or less of a crime.

Those groomed in Rotherham groomed. Are they any less victims? Surely we can have empathy for victims of teenagers who have been groomed?

No, they're not any less victims. Although, so hard! I'm firmly on the fence. Easy to get brainwashed
Few years down the line thinking hang on....
Just no, too late, can't be sure, is it worth the risk

She is such a liar! She's claiming she didn't know children were killed and injured in the Manchester bombing, what a load of crap. Honestly I've never seen anyone so bloody insincere.

This woman is still committed to ISIS and its values, the only reason she wanted to come back is that the "caliphate" has fallen and she misses the NHS.

As a dual citizen, (Bangladeshi and British), this doesn’t apply

But she doesn't have citizenship of Bangladesh. What if they refuse to make her a citizen?

But she doesn't have citizenship of Bangladesh. What if they refuse to make her a citizen?

Since her father is a Bangladeshi national living in Bangladesh that seems unlikely. But it’s a bridge to cross in court in a few years’ time if it arises.

Bloody hell, she's a traumatised kid with a baby, I despair

She is an adult who is unrepentant about her actions.

This ^^

Just heard the former MET superintendent on radio 4 and I agree with everything he says.

Dal Babu, former MET Police chief superintendent, speaking on the failures said: “It was shocking to learn that actions taken by the police and the failure of the school led to the Bethnal Green schoolgirls joining ISIS. The school failed to explain the seriousness of the situation to the parents and also what an appropriate adult meant when they assumed that role.

“This has been a catastrophic failure in safeguarding. It is extremely concerning that there has been no independent review and nothing to suggest that lessons have been learned or that safeguards have been put in place to ever stop this happening again.”

School and police where aware she was being groomed, no one told her parents. She was married to a man twice her age the moment she arrived in Syria. It’s a case of sexual grooming as well as radicalisation. She’s been brutalised, may well have been repeatedly abused in her time there, has lost two children, seems to be suffering from poor mental health, and Britain, the country who failed her 1st time round, has washed its hands again. Seems we learnt nothing from Rochdale. She just another girl from a council estate who no one cared about enough to safeguard.

Bollocks.
Comparison. With Rochdale child abuse victims is nonsense. They did not leave britain and become jihadis did they? They did not support beheadings, killings, murders and partake in them. They committed no crimes. They are not violent, psychopathic terrorists. The comparison is ludicrous and offensive to child abuse victims.

Whatever she is, she is what Britain made her

Or perhaps it was a closed community which "made her"?

Did anyone else notice that she didn't look at her baby once

I did, yes - but then, perhaps it wasn't her baby ... ?

Surely we could ... sling them in jail and forget about them

Nice idea, but sadly it doesn't work like that. The instant types like this hit a cell they attract swarms of do-gooders like flies to a turd, all terribly keen to tell us they've seen the light and have totally reformed; they'd probably even throw in "she's found Jesus" for a bit of western appeal

Much, much safer on the whole to keep her well away from decent people

This is not just about Begum. The government has to consider what the public thinks and what the consequences of doing the opposite will be. At the moment, I'd suggest no-one wants to shake things up more than they have to because we are already in a time of political instability.

And Britain also has to consider the wider diplomatic stage. We cannot be seen to be soft on ISIS returnees. Nor do we want Hezbollah sponsored assassinations on British streets or civil unrest between different Muslim communities within the country (arab/kurdish/indian subcontinental skirmishes are growing in some areas)

The political stability of Britain has to come first, and the possible blowback of allowing Begum to return to the UK is too great a risk.

Begum has made herself a modern Myra Hindley type figure. And when you do that, I'm afraid, there's no way back.

Really hope her and her young baby are allowed back soon

Smellbellina. Perhaps you can offer her your spare room then?

I felt a bit sorry for her until I saw her interview !
Shocking

Glad she’s not coming back

"We have a similar case pending in the US."

That's very interesting! So you have your '2 minute hate' subject, too?
Orwell intended his novel to be a warning, not an instruction manual.

I note that both are women. Are the US letting the men slink back unremarked, too?

Basically just a PR move by the government. It's win-win for them - either she doesn't appeal, so it stands; she does and loses, so it stands; or she does and wins, and the government get to blame the judges and use it as further "proof" that we should leave ECHR. No one's any safer or better off but hey, Javid gets a boost to his leadership chances with the Tory membership

^^ This

There's usually a reason when parents are excluded from safeguarding measures. The authorities don't speak about their side of events, so there is only the famil's version to go on.

They say their exclusion was solely because of incomoetence, and they should have been to. We do not know if the one reason, of the possible ones, is the correct one.

"that we should leave ECHR"

Is it anything to do with EU? I know some people like to shoehorn Brexit into everything. But what international law/treaty actually applies here?

Genuine question. International 'law' usually means UN treaty obligations, doesn't it? So what 'law' actually applies here?

@RancidOldHag that’s assuming the correct safeguarding protocol was followed. We don't know because there’s been no investigation. Of course it’s possible the family were excluded because of concerns about them too or, as we know from past events, it’s possible it was completely mismanaged, ignored and people hoped the problem would disappear.

Ultimately I think its primarily her family's responsibility. It's like racism. Children do not not grow up with racist attitudes if there isn't an atmosphere of tolerance or intransigence at home. They may well form those opinions when older, but as children the family is the greatest influence.

And once a person reaches a certain point where the views become ingrained they say things. It slips out in ordinary conversation. So the family have to look to themselves. I'm afraid I don't believe they didn't support some of these views.

That's not to say the government are justified in arbitrarily revoking her citizenship however.

They've done trial by media and I don't support that.

She was married to a man twice her age the moment she arrived in Syria.

She did marry an older man who possibly groomed her, but he's only 26 now and she's 19 so "twice her age" is an exaggeration.

Dal Babu, former MET Police chief superintendent: "The school failed to explain the seriousness of the situation to the parents ... "

Didn't explain, or found they weren't being heard? I think I'd have wanted to be present at that discussion before assuming too much about it

Given the endless reports of recruits' parents blaming absolutely everyone but themselves, it wouldn't exactly be a surprise to learn these were the same

The political stability of Britain has to come first, and the possible blowback of allowing Begum to return to the UK is too great a risk.

So you're prepared to make her the responsibility of another country - one much poorer and less well equipped to neutralise terrorism and which was not involved in her radicalisation? What gives you the right to decide that this "dangerous" woman is not safe to live in the UK but can be allowed to endanger Bangladeshis?

The other point is that not all ISIS fighters and hangers on will have dual nationality. Many will have actively committed violence and be genuinely dangerous individuals (which doesn't really appear to be the case of Begum). If the U.K. can't deal with one radicalised teenager who appears to have spent most of the last four years growing babies which have subsequently died - how's it going to handle war-hardened young men returning from Syria?