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Original poster

Shamima Begum has her citizenship revoked

999 replies

KenAdams · 19/02/2019 18:48

How can this happen? I thought they aren't allowed to leave a person stateless? Not that I'm disagreeing, I'm just wondering how they managed it.

OP posts:
Aridane · 19/02/2019 22:44

WTAF? So how come leading government figures, security services et al were saying she couldn't be banned from returning? How come only now has it been realised and publicised that this teenager has dual nationality?

AlexaShutUp · 19/02/2019 22:44

I find myself feeling very disturbed by this decision. I understand the concerns about Shamima Begum returning to the UK. She made a dreadful decision in going to Syria four years ago, and she seems to be utterly unrepentant. She also appears to espouse some pretty abhorrent views. Some of her recent comments have been unforgivable.

However, she was born and brought up in the UK. She was a British citizen. It doesn't appear that she ever claimed a Bangladeshi passport, I don't know if she has ever even been to Bangladesh. I'm not comfortable with the idea that we can just hand her over to another country and absolve ourselves of all responsibility for her just because she happens to be eligible for another citizenship.

If a child of British heritage had been in Shamima Begum's position right now, we would not be able to revoke her citizenship because we would render her stateless. Is this woman somehow less British simply because of her parentage? This makes me very uneasy tbh.

For me, this is not about the particular fate of this very messed up and misguided young woman. It's about what it means to be British and the kind of country that we want to be.

Katterinaballerina · 19/02/2019 22:45

Thousands of people can claim dual nationality. Having one grandparent from that country can be enough of a qualification.

flitwit99 · 19/02/2019 22:45

Poor Bangladesh. Why should they be landed with her?

She is British, we need to deal with her and not just abandon her to some other country. Britain would not be impressed if Bangladesh suddenly dumped Bangladeshi terrorists or terrorist sympathisers on us.

DownAndUnder · 19/02/2019 22:46

She was born in England. She has never even visited Bangladesh. She doesn’t have dual citizenship
How do you know that?

PreseaCombatir · 19/02/2019 22:46

She was born in England
That doesn’t make you an automatic British citizen apparently, and neither of her parents were British citizens at the time.
I think Bangladeshi is actually her nationality then, by birth.

So she’s not a British citizen by birth, but a naturalised citizen?!?
Excellent, no more of this ‘making outlet laws up as we go along’ accusatory nonsense, seems like just applying the law as it stands.
Also read that while 400 have returned, and only 40 convicted, there have also been over 100 stripped of their British citizenship.
So she’s not the first, she just luckily (for us) meets the criteria to also be stripped.
Can’t get worked up about the UK stripping someone of a citizenship in these circumstances.
In terms of people banging on about which citizens have more rights, it’s common sense that there would be strata’s, surely? That’s what citizenship means doesn’t it?

Katterinaballerina · 19/02/2019 22:47

I don’t think she does have dual nationality. They are trying to strip her British citizenship on the grounds that she could apply for a passport from Bangladesh.

TheTurtleDidItAndRanAway · 19/02/2019 22:48

Bring it closer to home. I'm a child brought up in London to IRA sympathising parents. I decide to go to Ireland to marry a bomber. I marry him and then decide, you know what, the health system is shit here, I want my baby to be born under the NHS. I still am fully Irish terrorist in my views and make no apology for it. When I'm asked about bombs in Enniskillen, London etc., I hide my amusement but state that it was retaliation and fair play.Would you have me back? I'm 19 now.

Yes, because you're English and being a murdering arsehole hasn't lost anyone else their citizenship so why would you lose one for only being married to a murderous arsehole? Why would you suddenly be Ireland's problem? They didn't make you a twat, England did.

And furthermore, you could fuck off and leave Ireland anytime. And if you were in a relationship with an adult you'd be taken into care. Not raped and passed around like this girl could have been based on other women's accounts of ISIS.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 19/02/2019 22:49

Why is there an assumption that removing her citizenship and leaving her in a Syrian refugee camp makes this country safer? I wouldn’t have thought it would be that simple given how ISIS operates.

TheTurtleDidItAndRanAway · 19/02/2019 22:49

Thousands of people can claim dual nationality. Having one grandparent from that country can be enough of a qualification.

It amuses me the people who think they are experts on the ease with which one gets dual nationality. I'm sure she'll have no issues applying form her refugee camp with her current history.

MadMum101 · 19/02/2019 22:50

Interested to know where you got your information from needmorespace as according to the Gov website, if her parents were not BC when she was born which I don't think they were , she could have been registered as a BC but would have needed to apply for it formally at 18.

The registration would also have been a separate application from her parents.

PreseaCombatir · 19/02/2019 22:50

They didn't make you a twat, England did
Nope, was definitely the IRA parents....

SomethingOnce · 19/02/2019 22:50

Does anyone know if there’s any evidence of these two other children? I hate to be sceptical but there’s the outside chance she may not be telling the truth.

Katterinaballerina · 19/02/2019 22:50

I’m going off articles published in the past few days DownandUnder. I

Caselgarcia · 19/02/2019 22:50

In an ideal world she would have been tried in Syria for any crimes she may have committed. That's obviously a non starter. The Kurds don't want these ISIS wives and families indefinitely in their detention camps. It's a real conundrum what to do with them, no one knows how many there are. If we take her back, it sets a precedent, they certainly can't all be put on trial here. Difficult situation all round.

DataBreachCentral · 19/02/2019 22:50

@Genevieva

are you suggesting that the government is fearful of lynch mobs? I thought the stabbing in Brighton was related to drugs dealing.

The stabbing may well have been to do with rival drugs gangs, after all he's a convicted dealer but the timing just seems rather 'coincidental'

Leaving that aside, yes I do think the Govt is probably fearful of lynch mobs. Not just specifically Begum's family but any muslim family. Even some of my rather liberal friends are being whipped up by all this on FB and coming across as a bit Tommy Robinson Sad

humptydoo · 19/02/2019 22:51

I don’t think she does have dual nationality. They are trying to strip her British citizenship on the grounds that she could apply for a passport from Bangladesh.

Yes, she could apply for a Bangladeshi passport because she is a Bangladesh citizen. She was at birth because she was born to a Bangladeshi mother. Not having a passport/not wanting to be a citizen doesn't make you any less of one if a country considers that you are (see also: Boris Johnson/USA).

Katterinaballerina · 19/02/2019 22:53

I don’t think it’s easy to apply for citizenship. I’m saying that our government are using the fact that she can apply as grounds to strip her British citizenship.

Idiota · 19/02/2019 22:53

It sets a pretty dangerous precedent.

We’ve now decided that the government can unilaterally strip people of their British citizenship if they have or are potentially eligible for the citizenship of another country.

So that means that first/second/third generation immigrants to Britain who have either become or been born British citizens will now always be second-class citizens, vulnerable to a loss of citizenship in a way in which a child born in the UK to a solely British family is not.

And now that we’ve given our government the power to remove citizenship, who is to say that they will limit that as a response to terrorist offences? Plus, the definition of what counts as a terrorist group is very much contested - under a Corbyn government we could potentially see British Israeli citizens stripped of their citizenship for associating with pro-Israel groups or the IDF.

TheTurtleDidItAndRanAway · 19/02/2019 22:53

I don't actually believe this woman to be a threat. She was a stupid teenager and hasn't really been given a chance to get any better.

However, if she was a real terrorist that I'd want her here where we can watch her or put her in jail. Do people really think leaving terrorists other terrorists in a lawless war torn country will not result in a UK risk?

DataBreachCentral · 19/02/2019 22:54

Does anyone know if there’s any evidence of these two other children? I hate to be sceptical but there’s the outside chance she may not be telling the truth.

No hard evidence but I think it's unlikely that she has not been pregnant until now. I don't think IS set up family planning clinics in Syria and she's been married for 4 years.

Katterinaballerina · 19/02/2019 22:55

And stripping Boris of British citizenship because he could go live in the USA would be —entertaining— wrong.

PreseaCombatir · 19/02/2019 22:55

Interested to know where you got your information from needmorespace as according to the Gov website, if her parents were not BC when she was born which I don't think they were , she could have been registered as a BC but would have needed to apply for it formally at 18

The registration would also have been a separate application from her parents

Okay, now I’m confused!
Her parents were NOT BRitish citizens at the time of her birth, so she is NOT automatically a British citizen. She IS automatically and Bangladeshi citizen.
But her parents registered her to be one at age 10. But she needed to formally apply at age 18.
So, if she didn’t apply, is she even a British citizen then?!?
It’s really confusing!

TheTurtleDidItAndRanAway · 19/02/2019 22:55

Does anyone know if there’s any evidence of these two other children? I hate to be sceptical but there’s the outside chance she may not be telling the truth.

She was married off at 15 and is now 19. It would be strange if she hadn't had a few children don't you think? I doubt she had any choice about sex or contraception.

Saylav · 19/02/2019 22:55

They didn't make you a twat, England did
Nope, was definitely the IRA parents....

Yes.

Or maybe it was because I didn't like MI6 or government making our 'freedom fighters' terrorists Wink

Long and the short of it? I was reared by terrorist sympathisers, not by Brits.