Is there really an argument for the meat and dairy industry? Current meat and dairy consumer here

[Bastardanxiety]

Hi,

I can't guarantee this won't get heated, due to it's nature, but if we could at least try to keep things civil, that would be good.

So briefly, I've been a meat lover all my life and whereas we have been meat reducing the past couple of years, we've not seriously considered cutting it out completely. Recently though, with all the controversy surrounding the dairy industry specifically, it's really got us thinking, could we become completely vegan? I'm finding it increasingly difficult not to feel incredibly guilty. I can't see an viable argument against veganism.

I don't want to babble on, as I would just like to become more educated on the subject before making a decision.

Thanks

If your reasons behind cutting out meat are because of animal cruelty then that’s fair. Animals that we eat are purely being bred for human consumption so cutting out meat will mean less of that. Livestock contribute to 18% of global emissions which contribute to climate change, this could steadily decrease if we become more conscious and aware of our meat consumption.

There are numerous studies to show that meat causes many cancers, along with dairy products. They are also the main contributing factor to common health problems that we face eg. Diabetes, stroke and heart disease.

I think over consumption, expectation of cheap food and factory farming are a huge issues across the whole of the food industry.
Veganism brings its own issues. The soy, palm, almond and avocado industries are far from ideal.
Less meat and more locally sourced, seasonal produce are probably the best but it is not what everyone wants to eat, can afford or can source.

Vegans don't have a monopoly on eating almonds, soy, avocados, palm oil etc. And it's much more efficient in terms of land and resource use for people to eat food farmers grow directly than to feed grains etc to animals that they then eat.
Many people think they eat more humanely raised and slaughtered meat but the reality is that 99% of the meat we eat comes from factory farms.

I saw a few clips from some films including "Earthlings" and "Land of Hope and Glory" (about factory farming in the UK specifically) and instantly went vegan based on what I saw. DH did too and we don't miss meat in the slightest. We eat tons of fruit and veg, very little processed food, and really enjoy all the new recipes we're having. We've both lost a bit of weight, too.

If you don't miss meat in the slightest, then you obviously weren't that bothered about it in the first place. And I'm not a person who must have meat with every meal.

I did love my steak Obviouspretzel but I think not missing it is down to both not being able to under those film clips and also getting some new vegan recipe books and having fun making different kinds of new good instead of focussing on what I was giving up.

Under = unsee, good = food, wish I could give up autocorrect (there must be a way!)

Is it possible to feed everyone without meat? We have nut allergies so that wouldn’t help.
Could we not improve our farming methods.

I don’t eat much meat but it does taste good. As does dairy.
It is just so much easier to get nutrient such as protein and vitamins (b12) and iron from meat. Less effort and amounts required.
A lot of women in particular become b12 deficient and iron deficient and suffer so many symptoms of depression and weakness and malaise. Supplementation has to be done in an organised manner otherwise you wind up unwell.
I totally like the vegetarian diet but only if it is done right and many people are unwell because of it.

Veganism and vegetarian diets come with their own issues, as other posters have said.

Really the greenest and most ethically sound diets would be to eat seasonal, local food from small farms. No air miles, no intensive farming.

If you want to go vegan then by all means do, but the fact that lots of (for example) almond / soy / quinoa / a whole host of exotic foods which tend to be the staples of vegan diets in this country have to be intensively farmed in poor countries (often with deforestation) may mean that it’s no more ethical than eating meat.

The most ethical approach would be to eat local and organic. The faddy clean eating vegan diets rely heavily on imports of avocados/quinoa/nuts/fruits from other countries where the locals can no longer afford to eat their traditional foods, plus the air miles etc.

A vegan who eats only local would be doing a great job ethically but I’m not sure how yummy and varied their diet would be in the UK.

The trouble is that eating local and organic is very pricey. Not everyone can afford it.

I don’t know that there is a right answer but being conscious of the ethics of what you buy is a start.

Of course you could become completely vegan it's feasible, doable etc

I consider my diet to be very 'clean' (ie no dirty junk food)I eat predominantly unprocessed food but I don't think my diet is in anyway 'faddy'
Depending of course upon what you mean by 'faddy'?

Certainly from a health perspective alone, everyone could benefit from cutting down on dairy and meat consumption. A move away from industrialized farming and towards more local non intensive methods would only be possible with reduced demand.

I also don't eat a lot of quinoa or other superfoods. Again, it is much more resource-efficient to eat the food we grow directly than to feed it to animals which we then eat. Take soy for example- it's not vegans who are scoffing it all up, 90% of it is fed to livestock!! www.simply-live-consciously.com/english/food-resources/food-consumption-of-animals/ I don't really understand why people think vegans don't eat locally-produced food. Some do, some don't, just like some meat eaters eat McDonald's burgers and some don't. I do think it would be great if people only ate meat that was produced locally on sustainable farms...however that is extremely rare and very difficult to do. Being vegan by contrast is much easier.
I'm not particularly organised but I do manage to take a vitamin tablet most days. And DH actually has a peanut and cashew allergy. We manage fine.

I'm almost vegan - a mixture of ethics & food intolerances.
It seems that food production is such a quagmire, it's near impossible to be responsible, ethical & sustainable.
In the old old days, people kept a handfyof animals, generally treated them well, and used products from them sustainably by dint of necessity.
Globalisation and mass- production mean that we now stretch every resource to breaking point, without thinking of the long-term effects, or alternatives. Currently being vegetarian/vegan is kinder but we are still stripping forests and exploiting other resources to create a demand (I say this because nobody demands we use Palm oil, but because it is cheap to produce, many manufacturers use it, then claim that they "have to meet consumer demand").

I've never enjoyed eating meat but I know that a lot of people do and eating it has strong associations with wealth, status and masculinity in most cultures.
Obviously the meat and dairy industry wants to keep its profits and will lobby against anything which threatens it.

The demand for meat is huge and rising it's difficult to see how this can be met without intensive factory farming, disgusting and inhumane treatment of animals.
Perhaps we will end up with lab grown meat but I think people would find this very hard to accept?

@Whatsnewwithyou I didn’t say vegans don’t eat locally sourced food, or that they’re responsible for the majority of the soy bean farming (as you rightly point out, the vast majority goes to animal feed).

However if you were to only eat seasonal vegan produce from the UK you’d have a very limited diet for much of the year, unless you happen to have a freezer with Tardis-like capacity. And buying into the increased trend for soya and almond milk still does harm, even if more harm is being done by the mean industry.

Our food chains are so deeply embedded I’m not sure they’ll ever change. I think the only real way to eat ethically would be to run your own small holding and buy from other local producers. Obviously highly unrealistic for most people!

My main issue with the Vegan drive is that it is not a balanced view. The information available on the internet, the films that are often quoted, are produced by those who have a vested interest, and therefore they portray the worst of the industry. PETA in particular are known for peddling biased information.

I agree we should all cut down on our meat and dairy consumption for the benefit of the planet, but I don't subscribe to the view that all farming is cruel and unnecessary.

Most people will never become fully vegan, it's just not going to happen. But the farming practises and our eating habits do need to change. I'm one of those who has reduced their meat and dairy consumption hugely. Mainly because I can't afford the good stuff and the factory farmed meat just doesn't taste that great.

I prefer oat milk myself over almond, etc. And oat milk is more sustainable than cow or almond as well as tasting good. www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46654042 Eating a vegan diet isn't about being perfect. For me it's about reducing animal suffering as much as I can - this is my primary reason. Luckily it also has great benefits for the environment and health as well. Yes it's possible to set up a false dichotomy between the perfect locally sourced organic etc meat diet vs the most processed, imported vegan diet. But that's not the way most people eat. Plenty of meat eaters also eat guacamole, etc. The fact is that eating a vegan diet is the single best thing you can do for the environment. www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/veganism-environmental-impact-planet-reduced-plant-based-diet-humans-study-a8378631.html%3famp

I spent 8 years studying Environmental science and 15 working in this field and I can tell you without a doubt that the main issue is how badly resources are distributed and how greedy we have become.
Hard to tackle the root problem and any effort to fix the "branches" would help a bit, but the tree is still falling, and it will because we can't be stopped

It is possible to avoid soy/ avocados/ almonds/ quinoa on a vegan diet. I tend to drink oat milk and my diet is heavy on beans, lentils, grains (except quinoa as I really don’t like it), fruit and veg. I am from an Indian background though and an Indian vegetarian diet tends to almost be vegan anyway if you avoid paneer and substitute vegetable oil for ghee.

It’s been a year for me and honestly, I feel so much better for it. I can’t say if it’s for everyone but I would say it is okay and the longer you do it for, the easier it is.

Can I really recommend this article by a friend of mine - a very simple summary of the issues.

For a more in depth take on the whole issue, the latest issue of The Land magazine has a series of articles on both sides of the debate (from people actually engaged in farming).

I had a vegan tuna hummus type thing last night (was made with chickpeas vegan mayo and red onion and celery) It was tasty but my god, my tummy does not agree with it and I'm bloated to the hilt with gas which explodes from me every so often. I dont think vegan suits me!

There is definitely a transition period that comes with eating more beans! Luckily DH and I went through it together.