Is there really an argument for the meat and dairy industry? Current meat and dairy consumer here

[Bastardanxiety]

Hi,

I can't guarantee this won't get heated, due to it's nature, but if we could at least try to keep things civil, that would be good.

So briefly, I've been a meat lover all my life and whereas we have been meat reducing the past couple of years, we've not seriously considered cutting it out completely. Recently though, with all the controversy surrounding the dairy industry specifically, it's really got us thinking, could we become completely vegan? I'm finding it increasingly difficult not to feel incredibly guilty. I can't see an viable argument against veganism.

I don't want to babble on, as I would just like to become more educated on the subject before making a decision.

Thanks

OP if you're on facebook there is a facebook group called open minded vegans, vegetarians, & everything in between that someone set up to chat about these issues - it's a kind and friendly group with no judgment where people at whatever stage in considering these things can talk..

My worry is the loss of jobs and homes for farmers, particularly in the north. And what would happen to the land. It isn't suitable for crop farming (lots of scrub and moorland/ hillsides). So what could be built on likely would be and the rest left to fester.

Thanks for the links @Sadik😊
very interesting and useful!

Gut bacteria are very important for health and the constituents thereof depend heavily on your diet
Hi fibre and a predominantly plant diet is the best way to go for health, in my view

Well the argument against vegaism is that the lives/suffering of animals are pfso little value that the inconvenience/potential health problems suffered by humans are not justified. I agree with this and this is the only reason I’m not vegan. If I believe even for a second the animal suffering was even comparable to human suffering I would go vegan.

It is perfectly possible to not suffer and be a vegan
I don't know what you're talking about @racecar

For me the chief argument for veganism and vegetarianism is that it is better for your health
doesn't everyone want good health?

I would happily eat more plant-based foods but really struggle due to IBS - beans, lentils and brassicas are a no-no. Having a steak means I can get plenty of iron and b-vitamins whilst not messing up my stomach, unlike if I tried through green veg and supplements. I try and buy free-range organic meat though. I am also a bit about many of the women I work with who seem to use it as an excuse to limit their food intake, like they did with gluten a couple of years ago.

I agree with others that vegan doesn't necessarily = ethical - there are issues with locality and seasonality of food too.

Why would anyone want to eat a diet that is sub-optimal in terms of health?

@Wordthe because it tastes good. Also lots of people can't get full nutrition from a vegan diet due to allergies and lack of b12. For me, a vegan diet would not be the most healthful (allergy to beans, intolerance to lentils and unable to eat soya due to medication).

Intolerance to lentils 😮
I cannot imagine life without lentils 😲

Thanks so much for all the replies. Really interesting and balanced views.

Yes, I would worry about not getting enough nutrients and I'm on and off anaemic and I have to say, when my iron levels are down and I feel rubbish, a big steak makes me feel human again.

My issue isn't with eating meat, but with the industry itself. The over breeding, the living conditions, the milk machine style dairy farms, with calves being taken away from their mums, just a few days old. That's just wrong, isn't it?

I understand that we can't all afford local, organic produce, but I suppose it's a change of attitude that is needed.

Wouldn't most people prefer to pay more, but have it less often?

Wordthe I love beans and lentils, and tofu. But eating them makes me so ill!

Obviously it's not the same as factory farmed meat, but it's worth bearing in mind that non-organic arable farming is also destructive to animal and other life forms.

I won't buy non-organic dairy in any form, but I'm happier eating non-organic beef or sheep (in this country almost entirely extensively farmed) than - for example - non-organic wheat where the plants are commonly dried off before harvest using glyphosate (aka RoundUp).

thats a bummer Endof:(
are you ok with grains and nuts and plant foods generally?

Sadik vast amounts of animal feed is imported into this country much of which has been grown using glyohosate. So much so that the EU recently did a study on the effects of glyohosate residue on animal feed on human health. efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.2903/j.efsa.2018.5283 Luckily they concluded the amount of residue we ingest is not likely to be harmful but I think if you believe eating non organic meat is a way of reducing glyohosate use you're kidding yourself.

Glyophosate

Damn autocorrect

Wouldn't most people prefer to pay more, but have it less often?
Sadly not, just look at the shelves and shelves of cheap meat and dairy produce in our supermarkets.

Sadik I read somewhere about insects - a child of the 70s/ 80s will remember having to wipe legions of splattered insects off windscreens regularly on car journeys. That doesn’t happen so much now as there aren’t as many insects due to the vast number of chemicals used in agriculture.

Interesting question Whatsnewwithyou - the sheep round here get relatively little additional feed - they're just not worth that much. Beef somewhat more unless I buy 100% pasture-fed (which is far easier/cheaper to do than certified organic) but the residues are still much less than eating the grain directly IMO.

For me the chief argument for veganism and vegetarianism is that it is better for your health doesn't everyone want good health?

Vegans and Vegetarians still die at the same time as their eat meating compatriots, they just die of different things.

OlderThan I was always under the impression that meat consumption is associated with worse health outcomes, or is it that the more veg you eat the better (irrespective of whether you eat meat)

This is one of the headlines on the Guardian at the minute. www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/27/secret-filming-shows-sick-cows-slaughtered-for-meat-in-poland

Word As with all these things, it is not as simple as eat this you live, eat this you die!! Apparently being Vegetarian is better for certain heart conditions and certain cancers, but not all. And they still die on average at the same age as Omnivores.

Being a Vegan is a lot better for certain cancers ie: bowel cancer, which has a very heavy association with meat eating, and also for all cancers. Also the same applies to heart conditions as for the Veggies. As for living longer, they haven't yet had enough data to ascertain.

I suppose the conclusion is what most pp's are already trying to do, which is cut down on meat consumption, up the veg consumption, but get as balanced and varied a diet as you can.

Can anyone explain to me the argument for eating organic being good for the environment? I was under the impression that it uses much more energy to grow organic crops and that the only way to be able to sustainably feed the population of the work was to use gm crops.