The rise of the far right

[Rory786]

Is anyone else concerned about the rise of the far right.

I just read that Marion Marechal Le Pen will be invited to speak at the Oxford Union following her aunt Marine Le Pen, Ann Coulter, Katie Hopkins, Tommy Robinson.

Concerns about religion used to mean anti Catholicism. We have a history of anti Catholic riots in the U.K.. Laws were passed controlling what Roman Catholics could and couldn't do.

Some people in the U.K. retain serious prejudices against Roman Catholics.

Is that the religion you are talking about pusspuss9?

I am concerned about nuclear treaty having gone and rise of Trump in US versus Russia, China and North Korea etc. Expecting another world war unless get political change.

Moussemoose To be pedantic, Roman Catholicism is actually a denomination of Christianity, as is Anglicanism (or the CofE if you prefer).

Yes, I've noticed much prejudice on MN against Jacob Rees-Mogg for publicly espousing his RC beliefs. I'm sure you'd agree with me that that is shocking as we live in a multi religious society, and there must be freedom of religious expression.

could well be moussemoose.

@Moussemoose I thought she was talking about the extreme elements of Zionism, and the influence and control of Israel over governments here and in the US, and of course their apartheid actions against Palestine. It's frightening.

@pusspuss9 Your views are not racist/ xenophobic if they are based in fact, and you don't stereotype a whole religion based on the actions of a few. I can't think of any religion that doesn't have extreme elements that are entirely unacceptable to most, but I would never say that these faiths are wrong or bad because the vast majority of their followers are good people.

Absolutely, I'm sure we all abhor all forms of prejudice based on a limited understanding of a religion, or subdivision thereof.

And I am sure we have all moved on from a point where prejudice against Roman Catholicism was seen as 'common sense'.

There was a report on the BBC last night about hospitals in Gaza, and they're struggling to provide care because Israel won't allow them to have fuel. The story ended with pictures of a child a few days old, who needed life saving treatment but the hospital were waiting for permission from the Israelis as Palestinians need their permission to leave. The permission was not granted in time and that little baby died at four days old, because they're effectively trapped in their own land.

Apologies, off topic, but it was heartbreaking. And rage inducing.

The rise in Eastern Europe scares me immensely and is a huge reason for why I voted leave!!!!

Apologies for those who have heard this before.

The rise of the right in Eastern Europe is one of the main reasons we should stay in the EU.

While we are in the EU we can influence, exert pressure and support the moderates in European countries.

The lesson of 1939 is that we should run to and support Europe. Running away and hiding when our neighbours have problems does not work.

If you are scared of the right why would you shut down discussion with those countries? Why would you want to reduce our influence? Surely we should be working harder to show how a united liberal Europe works for all.

I agree with you OP, it is terrifying.

This said I think that extremes regardless of which direction they are leaning are also dangerous.

We are in dark times and I just do not see a feasible or positive option available for us all here in the immediate future, we are all doomed to hell in a handcart with any of the current party options.

I bloody detest the division brought about by Brexit and think it will be decades if at all before we get back to a point where folks can even begin to work together.

A united (ha ha) liberal (double ha ha) Europe doesn't work for all though does it, that's why Leave won. If you cannot see that is why Trump got in (and will again if he runs in 2020), and why there is disaffection with the EU, then you need to clean your glasses/give your head a wobble etc.

There is a massive disconnect between the governed and the governing. Many of those who espouse the liberal consensus are sitting in their Brussels bubble/M25/Westminster bubble and haven't got a fecking clue. On paper, I should have voted Remain, but I didn't, because if you look very closely, the fault lines are there for all to see. The EU (and it is different to Europe) is trying to shoehorn nation states with very different cultural outlooks and histories into the same mould, and it doesn't work. That's why you have the V4 grouping; that's why Italy is on the cusp.

You also have the issue that some of those who wish to come and settle in Europe can't cope with liberal values and prefer their own set of mores. Rather than conforming to European norms, they then import their own which don't chime with the laws in European countries, and cause problems.

I am against further expansion, and am especially worried about Serbia, especially given the reports from the State dept every year on trafficking.

'Serbia is a source, transit, and destination country for men, women, and children subjected to sex trafficking and forced labor, including domestic servitude and forced begging. Serbian women are subjected to sex trafficking both in Serbia and in neighboring countries and throughout Europe, particularly Austria, Germany, Turkey, and Italy. Serbian nationals, primarily men, are subjected to forced labor in labor-intensive sectors, such as the construction industry, in European countries (including Azerbaijan, Slovenia, and Russia) and the United Arab Emirates. Serbian children, particularly Roma, are subjected within the country to sex trafficking, forced labor, forced begging, and petty crime. Thousands of migrants and refugees from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and neighboring countries transiting through or stranded in Serbia are vulnerable to trafficking within Serbia. Alleged traffickers reportedly influenced some trafficking cases through bribery of the victim or judge. '

Arms trafficking too: www.reuters.com/article/us-france-shooting-gunrunners-insight/gaffer-tape-and-500-euros-running-guns-to-the-heart-of-europe-idUSKBN0TH05420151128

Moussemoose I do find it odd how those that say to engage with such nations can sometimes also be the first to want to shut down involvement with the US because of Trump. As though the views and actions of Eastern Europe are "cultural" and therefore more acceptable.

Confusing post *scaryteacher.

You say their is dissatisfaction with the EU. I have listened carefully to leavers and there is a lot of dissatisfaction with the economic situation they find themselves in. Austerity, deindustrialisation, the feeling that they have been abandoned by government - all true and none of it the fault of the EU.

My point was that the far right is rising, these groups are often homegrown and are not made up of immigrants.

We need to engage with these groups at home and in other EU countries to demonstrate the benefits of working together and the benefits of a liberal consensus.

Looking for fault lines and pointing fingers, identifying groups who don't fit and look different and blaming them is the very tactic of the right. Pointing and laughing feeds into the hands of the extremes who want division.

We need to demonstrate that there is a middle ground, that more unites us than divides us and that we can work together.

Who wants to shut down involvement with the USA? Not me.

NATO is being weakened by Trump not us. The US has been very supportive (?) of Europe post WW2 but now seems to be pulling away.

That's concerning. I think we need to work with and build bridges with all our allies and neighbours.

I bloody detest the division brought about by Brexit and think it will be decades if at all before we get back to a point where folks can even begin to work together.

Me too. Brexit is a far right project. We as a country have sleepwalked right into it and I fear they have caused us irreparable damage.

*Moussemouse: You say their is dissatisfaction with the EU. I have listened carefully to leavers and there is a lot of dissatisfaction with the economic situation they find themselves in. Austerity, deindustrialisation, the feeling that they have been abandoned by government - all true and none of it the fault of the EU.

My point was that the far right is rising, these groups are often homegrown and are not made up of immigrants.

We need to engage with these groups at home and in other EU countries to demonstrate the benefits of working together and the benefits of a liberal consensus.

Looking for fault lines and pointing fingers, identifying groups who don't fit and look different and blaming them is the very tactic of the right. Pointing and laughing feeds into the hands of the extremes who want division.*

100%.

The EU is not democratic. Check Martin Selmayr and how he was appointed as secretary general unilaterally by Junker. Also how Merkel unilaterally allowed over a million people (nearly all young men) into Germany with a religion that is not compatible with the freedoms especially for women that we have in Europe. How scared politicians in Germany and in the EU were too scared to oppose her. This is reason to be scared and to at least open the subject for discussion which for a long time in Germany it wasn't.

Austerity, deindustrialisation, the feeling that they have been abandoned by government

Unless you have your head in the sand, this is happening across the EU, Macron is being Thatcher 2.0, the EU has enforced austerity on countries, to pretend the EU is benign and not a neo liberal organisation is pointing fingers yourself

The EU is democratic.

Civil servants are appointed in the U.K..

The parliament is elected.
The Council of Ministers is made up of elected politicians.
The Commission is the equivalent of the civil service the head is elected by elected politicians.

So the EU is more democratic that the U.K.

It has happened in some EU states - not all - but it is not caused by the EU.

This is the fault of U.K. governments and as you say in France by Macron.

National politicians.

Goodness! If you exercise your freedom of speech and call out and speak about objective truths, rather than basing everything on subjective opinions, you're considered far right apparently!

Moussemoose NATO is going to be undermined by PESCO pretty quickly.

Undermined or complimented by?

Organisations can coexist.

It isn't one or the other.

The US has plenty of other military alliances that compliment NATO.

Mouse NATO is not being weakened by Trump, but by those NATO nations who are not meeting the required NATO spend. This has been an ongoing problem and previous US administrations have tried to get those Allies to meet their commitments as well. Obama broached it at the Wales summit; Robert Gates raised it in the Bush years.

Trump is just saying very plainly and undiplomatically what the US has been saying for a while - why should US taxpayers fund European defence, when the Europeans won't? He does have a point. It was very amusing to see the leaders of those NATO allies who don't meet their commitments squirming like naught school children when Trump opened the new NATO HQ building.

We need to engage with these groups at home and in other EU countries to demonstrate the benefits of working together and the benefits of a liberal consensus. Only if you believe in a liberal consensus perhaps. Not of all us do; as the Gilets Jaunes have made plain in France recently. it doesn't work for them and they see an aloof President Macron as the embodiment of that.

Looking for fault lines and pointing fingers, identifying groups who don't fit and look different and blaming them is the very tactic of the right. Pointing and laughing feeds into the hands of the extremes who want division. No-one is pointing and laughing, and where could you find that in my post? The fault lines are there and have been for some little while - once you're aware of them they are difficult to miss. The EU has baked in its own fault lines and the PIIGS, or some of them, are still suffering the fall out. Look at the youth unemployment in Greece and Spain. Friends of mine in Greece think it will be decades before what we would consider normality resumes. Look at the tensions that still simmer in Belgium along the language line. Even Belgium has its own separatist parties in Vlaams Belang and the NVA who want Flemish independence.

I'd be careful what you term tactics of the right...the left in the UK seem to be doing very well on their current anti Semitic path.

We need to demonstrate that there is a middle ground, that more unites us than divides us and that we can work together. Who chooses the middle ground though? My middle ground is likely to be different to yours.

when there are already issues about certain countries not meeting their requirements, yes I believe it will caused major issues.