Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

My son is very cheeky to Judo Sensei every week, what can I do.

86 replies

StayAtHomeDadEC · 16/01/2019 08:45

My son loves Judo, he does it at home, he remembers the techniques, he never missuses it and he was brave enough to stop a boy bullying another boy in an incident at school, largely because of his judo.

My only quandry is what to do about the fact that he is very cheeky and messes about at training. He is 8 and throughout training he is normally grinning like a Cheshire cat, that in itself is fine and I'm happy that he's so happy. The problem is that when sensei speaks, my son talks over him, adds his own cheeky comments and gives some silly answers. Sensei is a volunteer who does tuition for free and he spends half the lesson dealing with my son and 1 other student. The strange thing is that my son is also able to give the Japanese names for most techniques and to demonstrate them so he is bright enough to do very well. Once he has learned a technique, which he often does quickly, he then mucks about, falls over for no reason making fake fainting noises, rolls around being silly instead of getting up to practice again, he wastes half his training time. The other judo students get annoyed and the better ones try to avoid him at all costs and can be seen sighing when asked to pair with him.

My question is, without threatening to stop taking him, what can I say or do to make him show an interest, show some respect and do his best judo? He is 8 and responds well to reward systems (but this has failed as judo is an hour so he forgets about the reward). He is almost completely unable to listed to a lecture and I have done social stories with him on judo (he's high functioning autistic).

OP posts:
TopicalUseOnly · 16/01/2019 09:28

Also I don't think you should be relying on judo to stop the bullying which he has previously experienced at school. If he's coming home with ripped clothes, bruises and tales of other kids ganging up on him then this requires immediate intervention from the school. Ask to see their anti-bullying policy and speak to the governors if you don't get an adequate response.

BlackCatSleeping · 16/01/2019 09:34

My son does a martial art and his teacher is very strict. He'd get his arse handed to him for that kind of behaviour. Do you think the sensei is reluctant to discipline your son too harshly because of his autism?

I think the three of you need to sit down and work out a strategy for how to deal with this situation. What behaviour is unacceptable, and what will be the consequences.

StayAtHomeDadEC · 16/01/2019 09:36

TopicalUseOnly: There are 600 children in the school playground a few adult supervisors. It takes a second for a bad tempered child to kick an innocent child and week for a stern message to be sent by the school to the parents (if the incident is seen by an adult and if I hear about it).

When a child hits my son, they'll probably get an instant lesson straight back.

OP posts:

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

StayAtHomeDadEC · 16/01/2019 09:38

BlackCatSleeping: I tend to agree, his discipline is good in many ways and he actually loves dojo etiquette. You say he gets his ass handed to him but sensei can't hit a child so exclusion is the ultimate punishment.

OP posts:
Oblomov19 · 16/01/2019 09:39

This is NOT ok. Seriously NOT. You ask what the alternative is to threatening him that he can't go but really there isn't one and that is the perfect threat.

ASD means he struggles to control, but he must try. It's not ok for other students, or the sensei for him to behave this way.

Have you stopped him going before? Try it. It might make the difference.

BlankTimes · 16/01/2019 09:41

Sensei is a volunteer who does tuition for free and he spends half the lesson dealing with my son and 1 other student

This is part of the problem, Sensei's lack of experience, he should not be tolerating your son's or anyone else's misbehaviour at all. Nor should he spend any full class time on one to one "reasoning" for bad behaviour.
Everyone else in that class is missing out whilst your son is messing around and commandeering Sensei's attention.

Why not have a word with volunteer Sensei, ask him to ask his own Sensei about how to deal with misbehaviour.

Anyone who misbehaved at dd's judo class would instantly be sat on the edge of the mat and told to sit still until Sensei thought they could rejoin the class.
One more incident of misbehaviour and they were off the mat and sat with the spectators in silence for the rest of the lesson.
If they messed about when they were with the spectators, they were asked to leave the dojo.

That's what your son needs to experience.

when sensei speaks, my son talks over him
He should not be given the opportunity to do that, it should be stopped the instant he opens his mouth. He should be immediately sat on the edge of the mat, be quiet, be still and watch until invited back into the group by Sensei.
One more infringement and he sits with the spectators for the rest of the lesson.
If he messes about when he is with the spectators, he (and you) should be asked to leave the dojo.

Once he has learned a technique, which he often does quickly, he then mucks about, falls over for no reason making fake fainting noises, rolls around being silly instead of getting up to practice again, he wastes half his training time
And he wastes half of the rest of the class' training time.

He should be instantly sat on the edge of the mat, be quiet and watch until invited back into the group by Sensei.
One more infringement and he sits with the spectators for the rest of the lesson.
If he messes about when he is with the spectators, he (and you) should be asked to leave the dojo.

This should and would happen in any Judo class.

he is unable to listen to a lecture :-) He runs away and talks over me
Look up PDA strategies and try them.
Remember that kids with ASD often are emotionally only about two thirds of their physical age.

StayAtHomeDadEC · 16/01/2019 09:44

BlankTimes: You are proposing exclusion by sensei and this is exactly what sensei does do, but you're saying those actions should be taken quicker. I agree and will give sensei my full permission to exclude my son for a few minutes and to exclude him completely from a lesson a bit faster...

OP posts:
snitzelvoncrumb · 16/01/2019 09:46

Op is he mucking around when he has finished doing what he is meant to do, or is it more in the second half of the class?
Could he be asked to the move twice so he isn't standing and waiting for the next instruction? If he gets restless in the second half of the class then maybe you can tell him if he mucks around he is going home. Doing half the class might work better for him.

Newnamejusttoaskthis · 16/01/2019 09:46

This can't carry on, even for another week, not fair for teacher, especially as he is a volunteer. Also massively unfair on other children. You don't know what efforts other parents have made to get there, waiting for a place, scrimping to afford uniform and petrol, hopes for a shy child to gain confidence etc. The fact that your child has a form of autism does not trump this. It is obviously not just affecting your own child's practice time, it is constantly draining for the teacher to pull his attention away rom the group as a whole, or a child he is correcting and onto your son. One of my DC was low level disruptive so I am not unsympathetic and do know how it feels. Ten minute time outs with you every time he even starts to go off track sound like a positive start. If he argues about this then take him home immediately - consequences. If this doesn't relieve the pressure on the rest of the class., take him out for a year. It is probably more damaging to his other relationships to have other parents and children so annoyed with him than miss judo. He is still very young. Maybe try another sport in the meantime like park run or orienteering where you do it with him....no groups for now,

Isadora2007 · 16/01/2019 09:47

A visual aid like red-and yellow cards might help more than words in his case. I think the sensei is being careful due to the ASN which is like a positive form of discrimination really. If I were in your shoes I would work alongside the dojo to agree on yellow card for sit by the mat time and red card for off to sit next to you. No discussions and if he argued or refused you’d go home.

Sorry but I have seen my relatives son who is also “high functioning” autistic andone of the reasons other kids don’t like him is because his behaviour affects them every day in a negative way and he is seen to get away with it. Whereas whennkids can see someone does struggle but tries to modify their behaviour then they are more understanding and accepting. It’s up to the adults to not just let him get away with making everyone else suffer due to his limits.

GemmeFatale · 16/01/2019 09:48

Take him home once. The first time he misbehaves. Use the time he should be in lesson to write an apology to the Sensei.

Explain if you have to take him home early again he will need to apologise in writing to each class member and if it happens a third time lessons will stop.

I suspect you will only need to help him write one letter.

QuercusRose · 16/01/2019 09:54

When kids are mucking about in my daughter's karate class, Sensei gets them to do press ups. Only about 10, and they count them themselves, but it distracts them and gets them to actually do something. Could your son's sensei try something like this? Press ups or a couple of laps of the dojo, to release a bit of energy?

MsMamaNature · 16/01/2019 09:59

I can't believe that the Sensei hasn't come down on him (and the other child) like a ton of bricks. My sons all do Karate. They started when they were 4 years old and they were told from the start by the Sensei that any messing around would not be tolerated. Children were regularly removed/made to sit at the side if they couldn't follow instructions/do as they were told. In martial arts the Sensei is to be respected as are your fellow students - if your son can't follow the class instructions and let the other students enjoy the class then he shouldn't be there. You could ask about a reduced class, ie he attends for the first half hour and then leaves before he has time to mess around and distract the others. This could then be increased over time if he can cope with it.
As much as you say your son enjoys it that doesn't mean that his behaviour should impact on everyone else there. Does he understand how his behaviour affects the other children in the class? If you were the parent of one of the other children in the class what would you think/do? By not removing him for his bad behaviour you are basically telling him that behaving like that is okay. He is not facing any consequences for his actions and he needs to. You are doing him no favours letting this go on.

Productrecall · 16/01/2019 10:03

sensei can't hit a child so exclusion is the ultimate punishment
But excluding him to the mat isn't working, is it?
I think you are right to lead with the social stories on missing a lesson, so he'll have plenty of time to process it. Reinforce regularly right up to the lesson, and follow through. I'd be a bit concerned that letting him finish the class after misbehavior and then missing the next class was a bit disconnected, so the previous posters idea of losing a star for every incident, then looking at overall remaining stars to determine whether he goes next time, is a good idea. Maybe slowly reduce the number of stars over time, so he doesn't get used to knowing he can 'get away with it' a certain number of times.

troubleswillbeoutofsight · 16/01/2019 10:06

I cared for a little boy with complex needs including ASD and a LD ( and probably FAS) he was about the same age as your son when I took him for swimming lessons and behaved in a similar way. It was very simple, I told him that the first time he shouted out or disrupted I'd remove him to sit out for 5 minutes. If he disrupted again we'd leave. On the next lesson I sat as near to the side of the pool as possible and then, the minute he shouted out, rushed to get him and we sat out at the side of the pool with a reminder of why this was happening and what would happen if he shouted out again. he did it again and we left. Yes I had to manage the horrendous screaming and shouting and violence that resulted but we didnt speak of it again. The following week I, of course, warned him what the consequences would be for disruption and sat near again. That little boy, with so much going against him in life, never once misbehaved again and learned to swim much to his delight. ASD or no ASD your son needs clear consequences and for you to follow through. If he enjoys this activity he won't want to miss it. If he's not that bothered then no one has missed out

StayAtHomeDadEC · 16/01/2019 10:07

Thanks everyone, it's time for me to learn PDA strategies, talk to sensei, do a social story about judo but to ultimately threaten to take my son out of the lesson if he's not working hard....

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 16/01/2019 10:07

“sensei can't hit a child so exclusion is the ultimate punishment”

I find this quite a disturbing sentence....

GetUpAgain · 16/01/2019 10:08

When my child was in Cubs there was a boy whose autism prevented him sitting still and listening a lot of the time. The leaders, his parents and the other children all did their best to support him. It's not school, he is not disrupting others education and I would have been mortified if my NT child was unwelcoming to him.

So bloody what if it's a bit distracting for the NT folk - think yourself lucky that you don't have the challenge of autism.

ItStartedWithAKiss241 · 16/01/2019 10:09

My son did this at swimming.... I got him straight out of the pool whenever he started messing about (after one warning) and went home.... one time he messed about before he got in the water so he didn’t even get in the pool.... when he messes about take him home? X

BertrandRussell · 16/01/2019 10:09

It’s not an ultimate threat. Just a natural calm consequence. First hint of unacceptable behaviour you take him to the side for 5 minutes. Remind him why it’s happened. Repeat every single time.

RandomMess · 16/01/2019 10:12

If you are able to stay and watch I would remove him from the class when he starts misbehaving. Sensei issues one warning, next time he has to leave class.

Fresh start for each class, firm fair consistent.

TinTinBanana · 16/01/2019 10:13

My son has a diagnosis of Autism. I would always take him out of the class and have a word with him outside the classroom if his behaviour was not appropriate. I would then let him go back once he had calmed down. He is 10 now and absolutely fine in classes but he definitely needed direction from me when he was younger. Could sensei send ds over to you for some time out when it is needed?

Isadora2007 · 16/01/2019 10:14

Does he understand how his behaviour affects the other children in the class?

Given the child has autism- a social impairment- I highly doubt he is capable of this.

LinoleumBlownapart · 16/01/2019 10:15

Once he has learned a technique, which he often does quickly, he then mucks about, falls over for no reason making fake fainting noises, rolls around being silly instead of getting up to practice again, he wastes half his training time. The other judo students get annoyed and the better ones try to avoid him at all costs and can be seen sighing when asked to pair with him.

When this happens at my boys Jui-Jitsu class, the partner of the offender is put into another to make a three, so they can continue and the offender does 20 push ups from standing (so they have to stand up between each one).I think also if he's talking over the sensei. The sensei needs to stop taking, and ask your son to stop so he can continue. He may not be aware that the sensei is expecting his attention.

BlackCatSleeping · 16/01/2019 10:17

You say he gets his ass handed to him but sensei can't hit a child so exclusion is the ultimate punishment.

Sorry, I didn't mean hitting him. My son's teacher is a really great teacher and very kind, but he's very strict too. Any misbehavour in class is dealt with immediately with a telling off. Not working hard enough? Do it again. I'm sure he would exclude kids, but it never gets that far. He's very authoritative.

You said your son was given time out about once every 5 lessons, but it seems his behaviour is not good every lesson, so I don't understand why the sensei isn't pulling him up on it at the first sign of a silly face or silly noise.