So the vote is lost

[StealthPolarBear]

Wow. So we move to te next stage.

Mays not going. She will win the no conudence vote and her aide has announced she's,not resigning,

It's interesting though,that the pound has risen on rhe news of the defeat, apparently because it's fairly well known parliament doesn't want no deal (think invalid passports and a tenner for a loaf of bread due to thr value of the pound crashing) so they either delay the exit and find a deal they all agree, and that includes the eu agreeing not just the U.K. , or they go back to the people.

But too many people don't understand the impacts, none of us do really, it's too complicated, we shouldn't have been asked in the first place, so how risky is it to ask again.

Saying on radio that £ was in freefall from 4-8pm today. Dead cat bounce.

Just get what done anxious62

We leave.

The public voted to leave.

Parliament won’t accept that.

Article 50 says we leave if no agreement. The government agreed to that.

I say that as a remainer. Leave and then negotiate and deliver what the public voted for.

Thank you anxious62, someone who is speaking sense.

The only way to get the deal, which anyone who has ever done one will tell anyone, which every business person who is interviewed says.. You have to play hard ball.

Hard ball here is no deal.

No one wants a no deal.

But you have to show your prepared to happily take one.
That's how you negotiate because that's the walk away.
Parliament won't let theresa may go for the this option.
The mps who don't want brexit, won't back no deal at all not even as hard ball play and they know it will lead to grid lock. Grid lock means there is a chance to over turn brexit.

Leave and then negotiate and deliver what the public voted for.

Easy to say, but actually, I don't think it's possible to deliver what the public voted for. People didn't vote to leave the EU and then face economic catastrophy. They voted to leave and for everything to be hunky dory. Unfortunately, that option isn't on the table.

Do you really think that the politicians should charge forward to implement the "will of the people" in the form of a no-deal Brexit when they know that it will make things far, far worse than any of the circumstances which made people want to vote leave in the first place. It would be deeply irresponsible for them to do so and a dereliction of their parliamentary duty.

Grid lock means there is a chance to over turn brexit

500 mps cannot overrule was over 17 million people voted for.

anxious what exactly did the public vote for, other than to leave? There weren't any options on the ballot paper that I recall. The fact this is all such a bloody mess is because leaving instead of working with our EU partners is stupid. Attitudes to the EU still reek of WWII and it's about time the UK woke up to the fact that it's not that special.

I'd say 100% of people voted for a government that would not "lead" the country into its worst parliamentary crisis since the war.
And I may be wrong, but I would think most people voted for a government that would run the country themselves, using their own political expertise, rather than asking the population, most of whom have no political expertise, to make their decisions for them.
How about giving those people what they voted for?

You could easily say that on that basis, Parliament should ignore the referendum result using its expertise.

I could and would say that, yes. It's a parliament, the whole point is that they are elected to make decisions on our behalf.

The thing is, everything goes round in circles because the referendum result was advisory so could have been ignored. We need to go through this rigamarole to show how bad a decision it is. Asking for anything other than no deal is like saying you won't pay your gym subs but still want to use the equipment. The only sensible alternative to no deal, which is really bad for the UK, is a second referendum with a number of questions, including the option to remain.

How about giving those people what they voted for?

The people wanted an end to the EU running roughshod over us, hence the growing popularity of UKIP which threatened the core long term voters of both major parties.

In the referendum, the people voted to leave the EU.

The problem for the last 30+ years is that Parliament (all major parties) have presided over a fragmented country and both Tory and Labour have been split themselves between pro and anti EU.

Neither Labour nor Conservatives have understood nor done anything to try to deal with that growing alienation within the country towards the EU. The people have been worried about immigration, worried about unemployment, worried about whole towns and regions being run down, and they blame the EU (rightly or wrongly, but politicians havn't done enough to explain why the EU is or isn't responsible).

Run down towns hear that millions have been invested in their town, but only see a weird statue on a roundabout or a cycle path through a park - they don't see new factories or office blocks giving them employment - things that they need!

If I had any power, I'd sack all current MPs, bar them from ever holding office again, and disband all 3 main political parties. We need a clean start without the historical baggage.

I didn't even get to vote, along with all other British citizens who've lived abroad more than 15 years. I just get to vote for parliament. Evidently totally worthless.

The thing is, we are (currently) the EU: it's not them and us. That attitude and misplaced UK superiority is a big part of the problem.

The thing is, we are (currently) the EU: it's not them and us. That attitude and misplaced UK superiority is a big part of the problem.

But it's been the UK politicians over the past few decades who've been doing the old "don't blame me, it's the EU that's made us do it", i.e. telling the lie that the UK can't change things and has no control over decisions made by the EU.

Whether it's been the trivial straight banana or buying sweets by the pound, right through to the fundamentals of selling off our infrastructure and railways being operated by EU government owned firms. We've been fed that it's ALL down to EU rules.

Then the Blair governments "rub the Right's nose in diversity"!

Our politicians over the past few decades have a lot to answer for as regards public opinion re Europe.

The UK is going to bumble into a hard Brexit by default because no one wants to make the decision.

Europe won’t budge on the deal. They want it to be bad for the UK as a warning to the others thinking of leaving.

The EU needs the agreement of all member states to get things agreed. So Britain was never going to get the magical unicorn deal of milk and honey that some brexiteers were promising. That is what many don't seem to understand, when we talk about negotiations with the EU we are not talking about one or two people who can decide to give or not give Britain a good deal. We are talking about agreements that have to build a consensus with all EU state members.

Why on earth did she keep going with this when she knew it wouldn't go through?

1. She's hoping the EU will give more?
2. She wants a no deal like her buddy Trump suggested.
3. She wants the British public to give up on democracy and the already cut to the bone police have to deal with it?

It's a shit show and I have to lay some blame on Labour for having an ineffectual leader who the British public won't vote in because he doesn't know what he wants either.

And I bet it cost a fortune for this all to happen when she KNEW it wouldn't go through.

He won't win the no confidence vote because everyone is terrified of what happens if he does - does he become PM? Does Gove/Johnson? So that's not going to happen.

I have never thought a second referendum stood a chance of happening. But I'm starting to change my mind. It might actually get to the point where a second referendum is possible. I still don't understand what the questions would be though and how a win would be decided. I heard someone on radio this morning suggesting the questions would be "No brexit" "No Deal" or "May's deal" But I don't see how that helps us as we'd probably land up with no clear majority.

That's allowing for the fact that sinn féin have 7 seats and always abstain

So do you think John MacDonald might have been on the phone to get their old pals to come and vote with him and cancel out the DUP?

Not that I want a general election

Why is this not an option:

A people's vote, with all the facts of going with the deal on the table vs what a no deal brexit will mean for the country vs staying in the EU and putting the last two years behind us? So we get to decide, do we want to choose the deal, no deal at all but leaving, or no deal and we stay?

Why are we blindly going into this it's either the rubbish deal she's negotiated or nothing and we have to go? Surely a no deal means we also have the option to stay as we are? There isn't a workable solution, so we leave it there, that's just basic problem solving.

i can't see an option that gives us another referendum - 71 labour MPs are backing it, but labour aren't in power, it looks to me as though we're going round in circles. May will win the confidence vote, even if she loses it that doesn't mean that they can't get another tory govt together...

if Corbyn had come out and said he was in favour of a people's vote, he might have been able to tempt a few tories, but it's hard to say. He won't do it though because labour have a fair number of leavers too. Brexit is a nightmare - I agree, a 3 option referendum would be even messier.