DS been told he'll be beaten up, school in 1 hour, what to say?

[ForeignnessAlert]

First off, don't tell me to tell the teachers. We are not in the UK. Anything that happens after the school bell rings, even if children are still on premises, is deemed to be the responsibility of the parents and the school does not want to know.

DS is 9, ASD, ADHD, Yr 2, been kept back a year because of his SN.

He came home for lunch crying. Two lads in yr 4 (9-10yrs old) have told him that they are stronger than him and tomorrow after school they are going to fight him and they followed him home.

I've told DS he is allowed to defend himself, he doesn't want to because he doesn't want to fight. He wants me to go any pick him up tomorrow. I will, but this is not a long term solution as children are expected to walk to school themselves from the second term of kindy (c. 5 years). If I do walk him he will only be mocked for being such a baby that mummy needs him to walk to school. If I don't, clearly they'll just wait until a day when I'm not there.

I know from past experience (this happened with other children last year) that the teacher's won't do anything.

I know who the two lads are and I know that they have to walk past our house to get to theirs for lunch, so they didn't go out of their way to follow him. DS does often misread situations and get offended about people following him or copying him .

I imagine kids are home for lunch right now.

What should I do?

This is surely a joke? My heart is breaking for your DS.

The first solution you offered your son was "defend yourself"....

You need to help your DS!! He is living in fear.

I would be speaking to the school and making it VERY clear that this should not be happening on their watch. I would then be speaking to the parents, whether they admit it or not.

I have a son with ASD and I wouldn't dream of allowing a situation get this out of hand. Walk with him to and from school if you have to. If nothing is done by the school, I would remove him ASAP!

This isn't acceptable.

If the boys walk in front or behind your DS on the way home from school, there is no reason why you can't go and approach the boys and make it very clear that you will be contacting the police if they dare to make another threat against your DS.

We went to the police when we lived in the Netherlands, OP. The lunchtime supervision was organised by a company outsourced by the school, and paid for by us. The idiot adult was organising other kids to beat up our son and psychologically torment our daughter. Neither the school or the company would take responsibility, so I took my kids to the police station, who went and "had a chat" to everyone involved. It did the trick.

The idiot adult was organising other kids to beat up our son and psychologically torment our daughter.

What? an adult? did I read that right?
Good grief

Bloody knew it would be Germany, their pastoral care sucks.
Does the school have a soziale Pädogogin who can mediate?
Would the class teacher not have a direct word (in fairness, mine did when my child got bullied last year and it was sorted out after a few weeks). Out of interest is your son at a Förderschule/Sonderschule - how did you get them into mainstream and have you had any extra support for the ASD? (Am facing these issues but probably coming back to the UK before September toi toi toi).

No, he's not at a Sonderschule because his SN are not considered to affect him enough.

That's shocking justi! Glad you got it sorted.

Mum of boy 2 called me back, her son has explained everything. Someone, boy 2 doesn't know who, wrote a note saying they were hiding and to ask DS who and where. Boy 3, accompanied by boy 2, went and asked DS who didn't know. Asked again and told DS he did know and to tell them so DS said he had forgotten. Boy 3 then said if he didn't tell he would beat it out of him. Boy 2 said nothing and said DS didn't seem upset.
I reiterated that I didn't think her DS would actually best DS up, but said that you never know if someone has threatened in a "you beat x up or I'll beat you up" way. She said that's exactly what happened to her son before Christmas. Boy 2 was beaten up because an older kid had threatened to beat him up if he didn't fight Boy 2. She has pointed out how scared he was of Yr4 kids when he was in Yr 2 and asked him what he would think of a Yr 6 kid said he would "beat an answer out of him". He was a bit horrified at looking at it like that (DS is the size of some Yr4, certainly larger than Boys 1 or2) and basically he forgot DS is so much younger. He has said he will look out for DS a bit and try to speak up if he sees something going on or other kids bothering him.

Boy 1 had nothing to do with it but has same first name as and just one letter different last name to boy 3. Boy 1 went to his class teacher as soon as they went back to school in the afternoon and Boy 3 owned up it was him. Unfortunately I don't know him or parents. But assume nothing will happen. I have spoken to boy 1's mum, apologised and invited her over for coffee!

Sounds like an "all's well that ends well" situation at the moment, Foreignness - glad you got to the bottom of it all.

Re. your DD - she offered to keep an eye on your DS, didn't she? If she offered then I don't see that there's any harm in asking her to do what she has already offered to do - she obviously sees a need and wants to help. If you were having to ask her without her having offered, then it would be a different story - but she did, so let her.

- hope everything calms down now.

Glad it worked out OP. My son's sensory issues and anxiety have a daily impact sadly and he has refused to learn German. So it looks like we are heading home I think. Any tips/agencies you can throw my way would be grateful for if you have time to PM. Hope your son has a good day today.

Oh that must be hard Rage. I assume though, as you talk of heading home that you're both from the UK and therefore both English speaking. DS was born here, DH and IL's are all local so they have spoken German to him from birth. So for him, it's not another language to learn. I just admit though that probably KiKa has had the the most influence on their language acquisition as we speak mainly English at home.

There was no fighting today!

Yes, his sisters learnt German at kindy but he was excluded after 18 months as they could not meet his needs . I cannot afford international school and cannot homeschool obviously even though I have a PGCE (it's not allowed in Germany for anyone else following thread) so DH has applied back to the UK, waiting on contract but also need a plan B and a plan C because brexit.

Glad there was no fighting. Both my girls were bullied by boys (which happens less in the UK because it's deemed weak to hit a girl, maybe it has changed now) so I do empathise - eldest was called a bescheuerte Engländerin/Fettsack/Inselaffe and was teased over a facial scar. We had to toughen up fast given no tutors or heads of year here but younger one not so tough and was spending every break hiding.

I know this is not the point of the thread, but why do Germany (and I believe Holland, not sure of any other countries) make it illegal to homeschool?

Son won't last 5 minutes in the German system - language deficit and resistance to it, open playground near a river and road with no decent safeguarding and no TAs/specialist SEN support or IEPs. Add on not being independent enough, complete inflexibility with clothing and food, PDA and meltdowns, insomnia and school refusal (was refusing kindy towards the end, very unhappy) I really need to get back to UK where I have family support, better knowledge of systems and the possibilty of a part-time timetable etc
It's hard, isn't it? My friend's son had ADHD and had to advocate for him non-stop as the Grundschule would not make any adjustments. Those with a SPLD like dyslexia got an extra 10 minutes on the numerous tests, big woo. Sorry - it's not a rant against Germany per se, I am just tired. Hugs to you and your DS.

I don't know Thumb - maybe because there's no Ofsted type here so it would be hard to regulate or because it is feared it is not in the best interests of the child.

They won't give DS any extra time, but at the moment we aren't pushing it because it would be extra time for him to refuse to do anything!

Our school also opens onto the road, but what worries me more is the bus stop is over the road and he is used to getting the bus with me. I wouldn't put it past him to go and get it if he was having a bad day - I always accompany him if that's the case! The kindy teacher did once lock down the building though and left him sitting in the cloakroom until he decided to grow up

DS does have a TA, but likely that he won't next year unless he has major problems this year. Part of me thinks they will give as little support as possible so that he will fall so far behind/social issues so that the decision is reversed at the next meeting. Will PM you.

I don't know why homeschooling is illegal, to make sure everyone is an integrated part of society who can take part in the workforce, I suppose. But it does mean that they are obliged to give your child an education because they can't drive you to homeschooling.

Thanks alert. Ah, the leaving him in the Garderobe sounds familiar. Sadly for mine, he never did 'come round' and I used to collect him finding him sat there or asleep on the bench. Told them there was no duty of care if they couldn't see him from the classrooms and finally got them to provide a tent as a safe space but too little, too late by then.

Based on this thread, the German education system sounds like some kind of sausage factory with a one-size-fits-all 'toughen up' ethos!

Glad I don’t live in Germany!!

It's a decent education but it is harder for those with a migration background/non-germans. You have kindergarten from 3 and it is incredibly cheap - far better than the UK in that respect but there is a huge push on being independent, making their own way to school etc which isn't a bad thing, they also start school year 1 at 6-7 then catch up and the secondary schools offer a broad and balanced curriculum....but it is continuous assessment here marked by the teachers so you only need one crap teacher for a subject for it to be trickier.
They have 3 types of secondary - mittel/real and gymnasium. Gymnasium equivalent GCSE is more like AS level (Bavaria is particularly tough) and the pressure is enormous. You go to Gymnasium, you get to Abi, you go to uni.
Real and you can hop across to gymnasium if grades are good or do a different kind of abi at tech school or you can go to business school. Office work unless you get your abi a side route.
Mittel (used to be Haupt) Schule and you have to work harder to achieve your aims the long way round or (and usually) you end up going into a crappier job at 16 or you can do an apprenticeship. In fairness the apprenticeships seem good here.
But for anyone with a migration background even those with good German like 3rd gen turkish Germans it is a bit of a battle to prove yourself.
The SEN in mainstream have it hard but there are special schools here. With all schools you have to speak fluent German and you have to fit in, Ordnung muss sein.
So it isn't one size fits all but there is conformity even though independence is encouraged, critical thinking only in certain subjects as they are teaching to the test and tests are half termly with quizzes/orals/presentations on a weekly basis.
I find it all daunting and I used to be a teacher so God knows how others manage. It would be unfair to say however that my daughters have been poorly served by the system, nonetheless big room for improvement especially where pastoral care and safeguarding are concerned.

What a jobsworth approach to teaching! Sounds like they would just watch the ensuing fight going, I'm off the clock now!

Yes, I agree with everything you've said there Rage. Especially how the foreigners need to prove themselves. My daughter is friends with a girl of Turkish descent and the stories her mum has told of her elder daughter's trials in school is unreal. She was advised to go to "mittel" but her parents insisted she be allowed to try for Gymnasium. Teachers all against it etc, she got practically full marks and is now thriving and basically top of her year! In kindy, they eat their snacks kneeling on the floor, using chairs as tables. He daughter turned around to talk to mine and dropped part of her snack on the floor. Got told off. Upset. Mum went to teacher who said something along the lines of "Mrs T. I don't know what you are used to, but here we eat our meals at the table and as some children don't have the opportunity to learn these things at home, we teach them at kindy." The mum was fuming, she said it was as if the teacher thought them some kind of barbarian savage because they are of Turkish descent.

I'm also dismissed as a weird foreigner. Most annoying of all is if
I raise an issue, they either refuse to talk to me or change what they originally said and say it must be a misunderstanding because of my poor grasp of the language I don't think our school have ever heard of safeguarding! And pastoral care is as you say, limited. But that's not specific to our school.

I am assured the school system is flexible, more so than the Uk, and there's no stigma in repeating years to allow transfer between the real/gymnasium systems. But we're not there yet so I don't know how it is in reality.

ForeignnessAlert I'm in southern Germany too. You're handling it correctly by communicating with the other parents. Your DD and her friends need to be watching for him too, and it sounds as though they are - older siblings have a lot of influence.

My DD (dc1) has stopped trouble on the secondary school bus with a couple of words before when it wasn't her own brother but one of his friends being targeted. I'm incredibly proud of her ability to set boys her own age straight and stand up for those emotionally (not necessarily physically) weaker than her, and see the fact she can do that as the silver lining of the rather lord of the flies way things can be here. Girls have as much power and influence as boys so don't dismiss DD's offers to help (though of course she shouldn't fight, she can protect him by being obviously watching and ready to cut the other boys down to size verbally, especially with her friends on board - she's probably key).

Good luck to your kids today.

Contact the school / parents and police if necessary. Regardless of school or country, a mindless yob culture should not be tolerated. Ever.

Good luck.

What you've been told about flexibility is true btw.

I'm doing an Ausbildung now in my 40s (which is surreal ) and have German classmates with mittleschule Abschluss Who did an intermediate Ausbildung giving them Realschule Abschluss equivalent, in order to qualify to start our Ausbildung which requires a minimum of Realschule Abschluss. Our 3 year Ausbildung qualifies those who pass the final exams to go to university in a linked subject, or provides Abitur equivalent if an extra English exam is passed (offered as evening classes - a lot of classmates are doing this and planning to apply to university).

There's also FoS (Fachoberschule) which is basically similar to sixth form college and only exists in Bayern.

We haven't had the foreigner problems but I think we were lucky with a fantastic kindergarten, and although we speak only English at home and I speak English to the kids always out and about DH is in fact German. I also embrace and play up to the eccentric English woman thing I must admit, but make sure it's the only eccentricity my kids have and do as the Romans do so to speak as far as possible. Football from a young age integrates kids amazingly well... We've been lucky where we've landed though.

ThumbWitchesAbroad I'm in Germany and had it explained to me by a German teacher that they look at the home school debate from a different perspective - children have the right to a minimum of 9 years of school.

They view allowing homeschooling as removing that right from children in order to cater to the wants of parents.