How to convince DP we don't need to fly on holiday?

[AdultHumanFemale]

A few days ago DP received an invitation for the whole family to go and visit his friend who has recently moved to an old farm house by the sea in a southern European country. I am naturally grateful for the invitation, but:
We have recently committed to making some lifestyle changes to support the environment, and flying is definitely something we have both agreed ought to go. We don't fly a lot anyway, so not a massive ask.
DP has now gone all #makingmemories on me, and is going on about how it will be great for the DCs to have a continental adventure.
I can't seem to get through to him with the very same arguments which made him decide only earlier this year that it would be a positive, life-affirming choice to avoid flying. I am exasperated, he's coming up with some corkers, such as "If we don't get on that plane, some other family will..." and "We can just go greener in other areas of our lives this year." He's a bright guy, but seems to have had a brain transplant.
What can I say to convince him that we don't need a foreign holiday at the expense of the planet?

Realistically it’s heavy industry that creates the majority of pollution. Apparently 70% of carbon emissions come from 100 companies (Exxon, Shell etc). I think it’s great to feel like you’re doing your part to search for solutions but until these companies are brought to task, then single families and individuals can’t possibly make a huge difference.

Can you compromise with a great adventure on a sleeper train?

We have an every other year foreign holiday.

My family live in mainland Europe and DH’s in Canada. There are no environmental issues which would come above me visiting them on a regular basis. Family first every time.

I think this is a situation where regardless of the subject matter (supporting the environment) it's about you and your DP thinking differently about something and should be treated as such, rather than the 'He's wrong, I'm right' stance you seem to be taking.

Choosing not to fly is something you are keen to prioritise over a family holiday on this occasion. Not so for your partner. I don't think you should be telling him what he should do/ that he has to stick to the plan. You're not in charge of his values/ actions!

Nor do I think you should fly when you feel so strongly about it.

I think the alternatives are that you travel on another mode of transport and all holiday together or your partner flies with your children and you stay at home.

What you shouldn't be doing is the impression I'm getting from you of making him feel he is being dumb for wanting to do this and it's incumbent upon you to get him to see error of his ways. Sounds like policing him. You are certainly able to claim the moral environmental high ground in doing so, but IMO it's quite a controlling approach.

Yes, you strongly feel you shouldn't do this, but guess what he strongly feels you should. Whatever decision you make about the holiday, you are both adults and can and should only be in charge of your own actions.

I doubt someone who avoids all air travel due to the environment would travel to Spain in a car. If you are that strict you would only do public transport. Of course you can travel to Spain by train. Interrail down.

I think the argument of the plane is going anyway is not something that really makes a difference to why op should fly or not. She knows that her decision not to fly was never going to result in any immediate reduction in the number of planes flying. That’s only going to happen if a larger amount of people make the same decision. But that group of people who eventually make an impact on the number of flights has to start somewhere.

For me, compromise is the answer here. Go but make it as environmentally friendly as possible. But agree to go as long as you don’t have to fly. Public transport along with hiring a low impact on the environment car is the way I would go.

Inks
I agree there's only ever going to be a difference if other people stop flying too, but I don't think that's ever going to happen. More and more people are flying off on their hols every year. The OP is wasting her time trying to màke a difference by refusing to fly I think.

I'm with your DH I'm afraid.
I can see what you're saying in theory, but to deny your DCs the opportunity to experience another country and culture and to visit your own relatives feels like taking things too far. Carbon offset to make up for it is the way to go.

To me it reads like, he was only sold on the idea when it meant not seeing his in laws very often, and now it's something he a wants to do he's dropped his green ideals.

If you can do another flight as a family, it should be to see your family.

Does he want to go to this destination, or is it just because it's free/cheap?

OvenChips that's why I am venting on here, I would never speak to him the way I'm ranting here. I am disappointed that he has had such a sudden change of heart after we sat down together and decided to make changes, but I'm definitely not trying to make him 'wrong' when speaking to him. Like I said upthread in response to another poster, I was probably coming across as inflexible and dogmatic, and I do recognise that it is not the way to inspire change.
Bearded and others who have flagged the environmental impact of driving; you are absolutely right. I said driving would be possible because a PP asked (presumably geographically; as in Barcelona or Mallorca?) and I have since spent some time last night looking at the emissions of different options, and driving is of course pretty awful too. I hadn't realised just how bad though!
I think the proactive approach of making a plan and presenting it as a grand adventure is the way to go. My friend interrailed around eastern Europe with a young family last year and loved it.
Naked , I am so aware of this. We initially decided to have just one for exactly this reason, as a huge concession to my rampant broodiness. Then, despite knowing precisely how much of an impact it would have on the environment, we still went ahead with DC2. I am not saying I am beyond reproach.
Parker and the person who asked about a family emergency; I miss them lots, but thanks to technology we are still able to connect closely and frequently. And sure, it would be loads more fun to actually be there. We're playing it by ear wrt emergencies, and I have not said I will never fly again for precisely this reason. I am avoiding non-essential flying and trying to be firm on what actually constitutes 'essential'. A trip to see DH's friend, who flies back here very regularly anyway, so it's not like we don't see him, doesn't cut it for me.

I think seeing your family is essential.

Skype can never be as good as a hug-hello.

I too think that reduced flights is prob never going to happen unless a carbon tax was introduced. However, I also feel everyone has to square that with how they feel about flying themselves. And for the OP it’s sometjing she’s not comfortable with.

However, op you may be giving yourself a very hard life if you are going to feel guilty about every non eco decision you make. Maybe look at - as others have suggested - doing it as green as possible

I think you're being massively unreasonable OP. Reducing carbon emissions is something we should all focus on but not seeing your family & missing out on a lovely family holiday - madness.

DH should do the sensible thing and go on holiday alone, then come back and leave you as your behaviour is only likely to become more extreme.

Rookie we only decided to avoid flying earlier this year, so DC have been abroad several times Previously, we were travelling abroad every other year approximately, and it was the most recent trip, to an all inclusive resort, which tipped me over the edge; really lovely but totally frivolous and nothing we couldn't have done in the UK. We always have the most amazing adventures in gorgeous UK locations, camping, staying with friends and going to festivals, so giving up foreign destinations doesn't feel like a massive ask, but could be because DP and I have both travelled a lot.
Snowflake at DP wanting to avoid inlaws. Only siblings and their families left back home, otherwise maybe. As for the destination, we are both curious about it as he's set up a fairly sustainable farm in a remote location.
For those who feel like missing out on family is a bridge too far, just to reiterate that 'only' siblings and their families still live back home. If it was my parents I would probably feel much more conflicted, although I do really miss my DSibs loads. Unfortunately, our last trip back was nearly 3 years ago, and we had loosely planned to go back this summer.

It's laughable that you decided to have a second kid then call your DH a hypocrite for wanting to fly. I know you have conceded you are not beyond reproach but to me that is ridiculous.

Ink I don't tend to feel guilty about non-eco decisions I make, as I know we can all only do what we can do, and we can't be perfect all the time. I let others do as they please and don't evangelise. In RL, I don't think many people would think "Whoa, Adult is a bit of an eco nutcase!" As I said, living on the outskirts of a city, not in poverty and in good health, it is easy to make really good decision as a matter of course so why not do it?

And in addition, seeing as the family theme seems to be featuring large, it isn't as if we'd be going back to see my family all the time anyway; Scandinavia is pricey, especially if you want to do some independent travelling as well as visiting family; it has been prohibitively expensive for us to go back more than a couple of times since having the DC anyway.

But Obvious, the decision to have DC2 was made nearly 7 years ago, and the flying discussion is happening this year! It is so recent and DP has been so fired up about it that it has taken me by surprise that he's bailed on it so soon. But yes, you are right, looking at it pragmatically, it does seem bananas to continue to procreate when the environmental writing is on the wall.

I think u should move out of ur house and live in a hut foraging for berries.

DH should do the sensible thing and go on holiday alone, then come back and leave you as your behaviour is only likely to become more extreme.

^This. The thread is ridiculous really.

Thanks for reasonable response. As I say, it's a side issue what your views compared with your DP's are, as is whether any of us agree/ all agree with either of you. If we all thought you were right, would your partner instantly stop looking up flights when you told him? If we unanimously said you were wrong would you just decide to start taking flights again? Not bloody likely!

But what isn't a side issue is how to deal with when there is a difference in your choices made through individual values varying. If your partner values taking your children to see friend on his farm more than the agreement to stop flying then he isn't disappointing you - he's just on a different page.

Hope decision about the trip keeps you all reasonably satisfied and that if you do go, you have a great time.

I’m sorry but you sound laughably righteous and the epitome of virtue signalling,

Sorry you’re getting so much stick OP.

Flying is one of the worst things we can do in terms of environmental impact. Every person that makes an effort to reduce the number of flights they take reduces the demand so it does make a difference.

As a family we have been abroad several times since eldest DC was born 7 years ago, but only by ferry and then driving. It’s always been easy and enjoyable.

It sounds like you have a great holiday opportunity but there is no reason why your DH can’t agree to travel there by ferry.