14 YO DS and the person he's becoming...

[SimplyVibrations]

Morning all. I am a regular but have NC because this could be outing.

I have been concerned about my 14 YO DS for a while and I am not sure what's part of being a teenager and growing up, and what is actually part of his personality.

DS has always been pretty much a dream child in that he has never given us any trouble, he's always been kind to everybody, he's been lovely to his younger sister, always top of the class academically and a very gifted musician. The worries we've always had with him, ever since he was a young child, is his lack of friends. He seems liked enough within his school cohort, but as soon as school is over, no one has ever asked to meet with him. He has appeared to be bothered by this at certain times in his life; I have always initiated all the socialising with him.

He's 14 now, in year 10 and doing exceptionally well academically, but that's about it. Despite his father and I encouraging him to try other things, it's all become a huge effort. For example, he will ask a friend round, but he'll seem happy enough to be invited or for me to make all the arrangements. I always thought that he might lack confidence so was happy to do it for him, but now I am beginning to think he just can't be bothered with people. All he does is 'show up', but will not make an effort to make things happen, won't show an interest in others, sometimes it seems he just wants to get back to his computer.

He will happily spend all his time in his room by himself, headphones on, on his phone or computer, not interacting with anyone, including his family. I now again, this is probably not that unusual.

A couple of years ago we became quite concerned about his lack of social life so we enrolled him at a prestigious (and expensive) Saturday music school hoping that he would be able to play in bands, orchestras, etc and have a social life through music. This hasn't happened. He seems quite passive about the whole thing. He is, according to him, very happy to attend Saturday music school and he says he loves it, but he never tells us anything about it, he doesn't do any music practice between lessons (completely unacceptable, we're talking grade 8 in one instruments and 5 in another 2), and again, seems happy to just 'show up' but without further input or effort from him.

It appears that there's an older girl at the music school that he seems to like. We are pleased he's made a friend but she is 16 years old, and we've come to realise that she's probably the only incentive for him to continue going to Saturday music school. They don't play music together, they just meet at the canteen. I have started to think that we are flogging a dead horse here. DS will simply not practice between lessons, we're paying a fortune for his music lessons but he's not fulfilling his part of the bargain, which from our point of view is to practice and get involved in things happening outside lessons. He seems to just go through the motions and again, simply 'shows up' but doesn't invest in any other way.

DS doesn't exercise at all, doesn't try to join in any extra curricular activities at his school, this is including music which would be so easy for him. He has no get up an go, no oomph, no initiative. Money is not an incentive, he pretty much has everything he wants;

We've come to the conclusion that we need to give notice at Saturday music school as it's too much money to pay just for lessons, if he's not going to get involved in everything else. DS will be mighty pissed off about this, but I feel it's because he won't get to see this other girl, and nothing to do with the music.

I find it hurtful that DS is happy to have his father and I making sacrifices for him in terms of the cost of the school but also getting up really early on Saturdays to take him to the train station, picking him up, making his lunches... He just doesn't care.

We have given him many many ultimatums, as in, 'DS, if you don't pick up your instruments between lessons we'll stop paying for your instruments, music school, transport, etc;. He then assures us that he's going to do it, we come up with a plan, a chart, a list with tick boxes, you name it, but he won't follow through, ever. This has been going on for nearly two years.

I feel the constant nagging of my son to practice has damaged my relationship with him. I would continue 'supporting' this if I felt he was getting something out of it, emotionally, socially, etc, but it appears he just wants to see this girl. If we stop Saturday music school DS will literally have nothing in his life beyond school, and even at school he's not involved in anything beyond lessons.

I would really appreciate thoughts from you lot as I honestly don't know what to do for the best. Thank you if you have read this long rambling mess.

I would let him keep going. It’s the one social thing he does-I’m not sure at 14 you have to go over and above. It’s completly normal for kids to do the bare minimum. Maybe try and agree set times for music practice.

You need to accept your son for the person he is. Not the person you think he should be. Some people aren’t sociable and as long as they are not lonely and unhappy, that is perfectly ok. Some people have talents but don’t use them. That is also ok.

I’m a bit bemused that you arranged music School for your son in the hope that he would make friends but now you’re annoyed that he made a friend in the wrong way so you want to stop him going.

I have worried about one of my children’s lack of friendships and seeming interest in friends in the past so I do understand something of what you are going through. But you really will alienate your son if you try to make him into something he isn’t. Let him be.

I think he sounds a fairly normal teen boy. Try to look at the positives. He is still motivated enough to get up and go on a Saturday, he is doing well at school and has made friends with the girl at music school. I think you have to let them find their own direction a little bit at this age even though its not the necessarily the direction you would want them to go in. It would be a shame to stop the music school if he enjoys it.

You enrolled him at a music class t make friends. He's made a friend and now you want to stop him going because he's made a friend?

It sounds like he doesn't need to practice I he's a grade 8 and 5x2 without it.

I have a 13 yo. The world is a tough place for the non sporty non popular boys. He's a kind boy, not put drunking 20/20 in parks and staying out all hours. Sounds like you've done a lovely job. Don't spoil his one chance at making a friendship (or more, who knows?) at music school. Let him be.

He's 14. He doesn't need a huge, sprawling social life. My dc have a club or two and school, and spend their time at home. Perhaps my teens aren't very sociable either, but that's ok - it's who they are. I don't see the point in pushing them into activities or social interactions that they don't want or need.

The only thing I would suggest is moving his PC out of his room, and into a common area. We have a blanket ban on screens in private rooms, and it does mean their gaming habits automatically become a more social experience. Our office / computer room has 2 PCs in it and the kids connect to online games and play together whilst chatting.

My two were very similar until the sixth form and then their social lives kicked in. It doesn't sound like he is unhappy which is what counts. Actually his life sounds pretty good and normal!
My two got so much out of music including the ability to socialise across the age groups. They also only practised the week before the grade exam. Frustrating but they managed ok. They enjoyed the concerts and tours and have a skill which will help them make friends in the future. DS1 is at uni now and joined the music society straight away. If you can afford it, I would keep going
Honestly he sounds absolutely fine for his age

But he made a friend at the music class? What you wanted to happen has indeed happened. Maybe ease up on your expectations of him.

Thank you. Thank you. Yes, it does seem a bit weird that we did this because of the social side of it and now he's made a friend we're not happy. But DS is 14 and this girl is 16. DS seems quite hung up on her; I wouldn't mind if they were part of a larger group but that's not the case at all.

I also get that I should accept him for who he is and although it might not appear this way in my OP, I really do. However, I feel that he needs to acknowledge the sacrifices others are making on his behalf and put some effort into it himself. I feel (and I only have myself to blame for it of course) that he doesn't appreciate that there's an effort involved in achieving something, because we're making things happen for him. Is the unbelievable selfishness normal for a teenager or there's more it it than that?

I’d “manage” him a bit less actually, 14 is quite old for tick boxes and charts.
If he’s playing at grade 8 on one instrument and 5 on two others with no practice he’s doing ok.
With regards to the girl - He’s socialising, which is what you wanted. I’d leave him to it, don’t stop.

Not everyone is outgoing and sociable. And there's nothing wrong with that so long as he's happy. He sounds well adjusted. Plus people change as they get older. Watching my ds34 yesterday at the dinner table with the family yesterday, he was relaxed, cheerful and funny - completely different from the nerd he was in his teens. Just relax and let him get on with growing up.

Not sure that moving his computer to a social room would work because he uses it for homework.

I think I am getting a well-deserved bollocking here. Please keep your comments coming, I find it helpful.

At 14 they are finding their feet and working out their place in the world, he sounds like he's a decent, lovely lad who you can be proud of. If he doesn't pick up his instruments between lessons then I'd just accept it to be honest.

It's normal! Teenagers think the whole world is there just for them. It can breathtaking at times!

If you want more effort from him you need to get him involved. Chores around the house, cleaning the car for a fiver, incentivise him a bit and don't just lay everything on. But also remember the pressure they're already under. GCSEs, firing in at school, homework, music exams, hormones and thousands of new synapses firing up in his brain every day.

Don't be weird about the fact this girl is a year or so older. He's made a friend. Exactly what you wanted. Don't sabotage it because it doesn't meet your exact requirement. (Meant kinder than it sounds)

Re: the “sacrifice” - to him, that’s what parents do,
I don’t think it’s fair to expect him to give thanks and appreciatiation all the time, and it’s counter productive to point it out.
And yes teenagers are unbelievably self centred. A universe of one!

As a teenager of that age I had one, maybe two good friends. I didn't want or need a huge circle. My best friend was not in my year group but we spent most of our spare time together. Instead of having to figure out complexities of big friendship groups with their quarrels, falling out's and back-stabbing (which is inevitable in a big group of teens at some point) I was happy to keep it small, having someone to confide in and let into every aspect of my life.

Not everybody needs a large friendship group. And that's okay.

Don't pull your son away from music school and the girl he's bonding with. That could cause all kinds of issues bless him.

Dont make a problem where there is none. My older kids (16 & 15) are happy to go to their hobby classes and hang out at home. They meet with friends once every few months. But they are happy and are not out drinking and partying like some of their class mates. In fact they dont like to go to discos etc because of the social pressure to do things they are not comfortable with. So as long as he is not being an ass at home count your blessings. He will find his people soon enough.

14 to 16 really isn't a big age gap either. Have you considered scouting to get him more involved in life off screens? We find it brings good balance!

I have boys who are 14, 16 and 18.

What you are describing is a normal developmental stage. A lot of 14-15 year old boys would temporarily become hermits if left to their own devices.

When they get to 16-17, things start to improve.

You're expecting too much. Our 14yo has no idea about the sacrifices we make for him. I dont think they realise at 14.

I also dont see a problem with him being friends with a 16yo girl.

Jesus, what more can you ask for?

He's talented, compliant, well behaved, and has made a similarly talented friend at a music school. he doesn't smoke, drink, or get anyone pregnant. He's doing well at school.

WTF do you want from him?

You're like a spoilt teen complaining that you get given a new car for your birthday but it's the wrong colour! Your son is basically perfect, there is NOTHING wrong with him, his health, his behaviour, his motivations or his social life, and yet you want to take away the music school he enjoys, that was your idea in the first place, because he's enjoying it wrong?

THINK about how different your son could be. He could hardly be any better and could be so much worse.

Unbelievable selfishness is quite normal. They’re all about themselves. It’s a bit like revisiting the toddler years in some ways, only they need to come out of this phase as functioning adults.

I would ditch charts etc. He needs to manage himself. Probably time for you to take a step back, not to micro manage.

Keep the music going. It’s the one thing he does socially. Music became really important to my DS at GCSE time.

He sounds perfectly normal to me too.

I really think you need to leave him to it a bit more and stop micro managing his life.
If you do stop the music sessions let him still keep in contact with the girl and invite her to visit. Romantic or not he's made a connection there. The main thing is he is polite with everyone and seems happy at school. Boys can closet themselves away at that age, gaming etc and my son certainly did but he was always happy at school and in himself.

You could look into scout and explorers as they do the Duke of Edinburgh scheme and one thing I really recommend is the NCS - National Citizenship Sheme when he turns 16. My son loved that and made good friends and it's really worth looking it up. My daughter is going to do it after her GCSEs this year.

He's a square peg socially and you want him to be a round one.

Perhaps you and DH have always been social and thrives in it, introverts tend to be the opposite!

If he refuses to practice then it's fine to follow through with your ultimatum- it's a natural consequence.

Your DC will not get the ins and outs of your finances so don't expect him to actually understand the compromises you've made to afford it unless you are so broke it's beans on toast or similar 5 nights per week.

The old saying, “You can take a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.”, applies here.

Look I appreciate that you’re coming from a good, well-meaning, loving place here but you’re trying to micro-manage his development and that means you’re on a hiding to nothing. You cannot hope to steer him down the path you have decided will be best for him...he will stubbornly choose his own route whether you approve or not. The hardest part of being a parent (in my opinion) is relinquishing control. But you must. he is growing up and frankly, how he socialises and what interests he has is no longer within your remit.
You can withdraw the funding for the music school if you’re not happy with his participation but it won’t make him socialise in the way you think he should. He’ll carry on being himself, music lessons or not.