Early (early!) morning waking 2/3 year old - broken and snappy - can you leave them to cry?

[Sleephelpplease]

Hello - on second child and whole house is broken. She goes to bed at 7pm no issues (bath/ story with milk/ into cotbed and falls Asleep whilst we sit in a chair beside her (working towards being able to leave room whilst she is still awake). But she wakes every morning between 4.30/5. I used to take her into bed but she doesn’t sleep much and I didn’t at all, so we’ve tried for months to keep her in her cot and to re settle her. She doesn’t. She screams in rage. She doesn’t sleep again. Have tried holding her hand/ gradual retreat (but she doesn’t go back to sleep even if I stay in her room for 2 hours). Have tried leaving her to cry and going in every 10 mins to say night night (so she knows we are there) whilst she cries and rages. She’s waking us all including her sister and we are now so tired and snappy (3 years of broken sleep!) that I’m snapping at the kids and my relationship with my DH is suffering and we are catching all bugs going. I look a wreck. Work is being affected. I have no link between my brain and mouth and am inevitably making stupid comments. And I’m so down. She gets plenty to do in the day, had a nap some days at lunchtime but only for 30 mins. I put a second duvet on her at night before I go to sleep so she stays warm (her room is cold at 4 but she’s warm in the bed), I change her nappy in the dark in the morning if she poo’s (every morning!). Please can you give me some suggestions!

Go to be earlier yourself so that you can cope with an early start.

It's the only thing that worked for me. dd was also a very early riser. It didn't change until she started school. Work out how much sleep you need to function, work out what time your dd typically wakes up and count backwards from there.

May not be what you want to hear but maybe she only needs that much sleep? So either keep her up later or accept that's when the day starts...

We had this until recently and I suspect we were giving her too many blankets at night.

A room should ideallly be between 16 and 18 degrees. This is easy to achieve.
We have a relatively lightweight duvet for her and tuck it on over her feet with a cellular blanket (which she will then kick off in the night ).

The next thing is you say she’s in a cot? For many parents I know putting their toddler in a bed makes a big positive difference to sleep and I would suggest you get onto this pronto as I suspect it could help.

Otherwise I really really feel your pain; really. We were in the same position but thought it was DS waking DD but nope: other way round.

FWIW my DD is 3 in January and DS is 14 months.

Ps: at risk of inflaming matters no parent should ever have to settle for a pre 5am start. That is still “the night” and as OP has stated fucks your whole day up.

No adult should have to sleep in the same patterns as a baby or toddler, it’s not a life.

I had an early riser too. CBeebies is your friend! Will she watch TV while you doze?

Hey,

Mine is similar at 20m. When I go in I can tell if he will resettle or not, if not I just get up with him.

I find it less stressful to just get up.

It’s awful, I understand the impact on your life. Mine also wakes in the night and the impact has effected all aspects of my life :(

I go to bed at 9pm without fail every single night.

Take care xx

No tips as DS is 11 months so haven't figured it out myself yet but he wakes in the night a few times and then in the morning gets up at 4-4.30am and will not go back to sleep whatever I try, I just try to go to bed around 9pm if I can, pre baby I would always get up at 6am anyway so it's not too bad but I could really use that extra time sometimes, another one due in June so really hope we can sort his sleeping by then

To be honest if she is pooing every morning at a set time then maybe that is her routine and that is waking her up?

If she is even slightly constipated that that tend to wake them early.

I read on here about someone changing the timings of food in the day to try to push the morning poo routine back a bit - what do you think?

:)

I think your long term answer is to teach her that she has to stay in her room being quiet and playing with a box of toys that you leave out for her.
Mummy is going back to bed.

So rather than insist she goes back to sleep, insist she plays quietly so everyone else can sleep, because it is still night time.
I would stair gate her bedroom, put her in a bed, and let her get up, and sit in her room and play.

But that will take a lot of working towards, until you feel confident she is safe and OK, in the meantime, go to bed earlier. Take turns at the weekend, so dp gets up with her on one morning and lets you sleep it out.

I also think it is the poo which is waking her, and wonder about how to chaneg the timing of that

Movie bedtime later by 10 mins a day for a week ? Early walking is the hardest sleep disorder to treat. As others say you may need to embrace your child's sleep patterns

I tried everything. The only thing that worked was thinking of it as special 1:1 time with him before younger DC got up. He's now 9 (years old. Just mentioning as everyone else is talking in months!) Wakes up at 530 on winter time and 630 on summer time. Always has.

Letting him stay up later doesn't work. We've let him stay up til midnight before, just shifted his waking time by 15 minutes and he was foul tempered all day.

Drop the nap and up the fruit and veg to move the poo tine?
Also, in the meantime, you need to go to bed ridiculously early too whenever you can.

Thanks so much for so many (early) replies. Slowly moving my bedtime earlier but I find it hard to sleep before 10/10.30 and I need 7+hrs sleep on a regular basis to function. I’m getting 5 1/2 to 6 usually. But DD2 still wakes in the night sometimes so it’s broken. Will try to move my bedtime earlier if I can. Also trying to not nap when I put the kids to sleep (hazard as soon as I’m in a warm dark place at the moment)as then I can’t aleep again until after about 11.

I have thought about a bed but am worried about the fact she can then get out, would it make it worse?

The children do wake each other up, I sent DD1 to my parents for a few nights to see if that helped but all it did was give her a chance to recover, she’s naturally an early waker but 5.30/ 6.30 which we can cope with, plus she just plays quietly in her room.

I do think Dd2 needs more sleep than she’s getting, she gets ‘naughty’ when tired (I have to explain to family she’s not naughty she just can’t concentrate or control impulses when tired, many of us struggle with behaviour when tired), and when she has enough sleep she’s sweet as pie, listens so doesn’t eg run off/ throw things/ kick which is what she does a lot of when she’s tired. It’s just now that I’m trying to get her to sleep somewhere other than in my bed in the morning she’s not getting that sleep. :( but I need it too.

Thanks for replies.

To be honest op I would also advice going to bed earlier it's hard my son is 5 and still a early riser I've tried putting to bed perfect but it never worked for us he goes to sleep early and wakes early. I believe it's fairly common. I co sleep but understand why you might not want to if it doesn't work for your family. You are all suffering now and it's sounds like you have tried all the usual things people suggest. So I would advice treating it as a phase , trying not to get stressed about it and just making sure you get enough sleep by going to bed earlier

What time do your children eat tea? I find if mine eat early (4.30ish) then they wake early. Mine eat tea around 5.30 (aged 4 and 1) and don't wake early except the occasional morning. Could you use meals to reset her clock?

I'd put her into bed later. Try doing it about 8:30-9:00pm? My son sleeps through if he goes bed around 8:30am, but wakes during the night if he goes bed 7pm or earlier! No matter how tired he is.

8:30pm* that was supposed to say lol.

Ds used to wake up really early , same sort of time as yours . Anything earlier than 5/5.30 I told him was still night time and I used to put him in our bed so at least I could go back to sleep . He did grow out of the crazy early starts by about 3 , by which time he had dropped his daytime naps and he never went to bed at 7 - he just didn’t need that much sleep . And yes that early in the morning CBeebies is your best friend . I hope it improves soon , it wasn’t much fun - especially the dark winter mornings.

Oh yes the eating times is a good idea - mine always ate about 5 or 6pm having had a substantial afternoon snack I wasn’t back from work till then

more replies thank you. She gets lots of fruit and veg but not at breakfast I’ll add some fruit to see if that helps. And I’ll try the bed gate and toys after Christmas (she can have a bed as a Christmas present). Thanks for replies.

Is she potty trained? I would have tea at 6 (snack at 4.30)then bed at 8. How's her talking? Is she nearer 2 or 3? I think early rising is pretty common but screaming in rage seems unusual, can you ask her why she's screaming?

You have described my daughter. There have been periods where she has started the day at 4.30. we have tried everything, and as all the books say, if you have an early riser there is naff all you can do. She would wake up and Bing! Full of energy, bouncing around, no chance of getting her back to sleep. She was getting only just about enough sleep to function, and her behaviour really suffered. We did on occasion resort to letting her watch cbeebies on a laptop in her room, or when we were really desperate for a lie in, gave her a tablet. Shitty parenting, but sometimes needs must.

Recently we have had a big improvement (she is 3.5). She now sleeps through reliably and tends to wake between 6 and 6.30 and can play quietly for about 30m. (I am still in bed as i type this!)

I don't know what shifted. I did have a chat with her one day. She came home from nursery and was absolutely knackered and miserable. I explained to her that she was feeling rubbish as she wasn't getting enough sleep and that when she wakes in the morning, she should close her eyes again.

I know how shitty it is, but I think you might have to accept this is something you cope with by going to bed earlier and trying to get her to be quiet in the mornings.

Oh and I would get her in a bed asap. She is likely raging as she is hemmed in. We have a Stairgate on the door as our DD has slept walked a few times.

We also had/have early risers so feel your pain! 4am starts are not acceptable and not sustainable for a healthy body and mind! And she’s definitely not getting enough sleep particularly if it’s affecting behaviour.

Weirdly for us an earlier bed/re introducing dropped nap really helped. We did eventually speak to a sleep consultant to get advice and that’s what they advised.

Apparently over tiredness can cause early waking too. For us the early nights led to less night waking and waking later in morning.

Just try nudging bed time forward if you can and see if it helps. Years on our DC will still start waking early again after a couple of late nights. We need to get them to bed early for a few nights to reset. Good luck!

Closer to 3, not potty trained and showing no interest. The rage is that I don’t take her to bed with me. I’d co sleep if I could (I love the cuddles) but she wriggles and kicks and keeps me awake if she does go back to sleep, and likes to pick my nose/ wiggle a finger in my ear ears/open my eyes/ tickle me when she’s awake. She’s got a sense of humour (although I don’t at that point). Giving her the iPad causes DD1 to get up earlier as she thinks it’s unfair so have had to ban it in the mornings to stop DD1 from getting up at 4.30 also 😫.