Do you think Mary, Joseph and Jesus existed?

[Papergirl1968]

Do you think Mary, Joseph and Jesus existed? I thought about putting this under religion, but thought there’d be a wider range of views on chat.
I’m not religious any more (was raised Methodist) but the Christmas story is something I think about occasionally, usually when I’m singing carols to the cat .
My own view is that they probably did exist, but I don’t buy the son of god thing. I’d hazard a guess that Mary got pregnant by Joseph when they were being intimate, even if they didn’t technically have sex. So she panicked and either invented or dreamed a convenient story about the angel telling her she was carrying the son of god.
I believe there’s evidence that they would have had to travel to Bethlehem - although not at Christmas - and that there was a bright star in the sky etc.
And I think Jesus may well have had children. Or maybe I just took the Da Vinci Code too seriously...
Would be interested to hear what others think.

There are roman documents about Pontius Pilate and Peter and "followers of Jesus" of around that time. It sounds reasonable that he really did exist.

The star above Bethlehem could have been a supernova.

According to the bible sheep herders were sleeping in the field when Jesus was born, you don't do that in winter because it's too cold so he will not have been born in december.

The only physical description we have of Jesus is that he had hair like lambs wool. So not straight or flowy like he is depicted in art, but he had an afro :).

Apparently it was quite fashionable at the time to pop up and claim to be the Messiah.

I do believe that Jesus existed, I thought it had been reasonably proven. He also would have had to have had a mother and father on earth so have no problems believing in Mary or Joseph either.

The earliest gospel that we use was written around 60 years after Jesus was born though and was written by someone who knew someone who knew Jesus so the sorry or the Nativity probably isn’t completely accurate

The Romans never required people to travel back to their towns of origin to register for a census, that just never happened. It was an attempt to fit the Jesus story into a perceived prophecy. There are no Roman documents referencing Jesus other than later interpolations. The gospel where written decades after the event and by anonymous authors and clearly they were not eye witnesses to the events.

Yes,but I believe poor old Joseph was a very simple man if he believed his wife was actually a virgin, and I don't for one minute believe that Jesus had the ability to turn water into wine,or all his friends and family would have surely died from cirrhosis of the liver and there is no way in hell (if hell indeed existed,which it doesn't) any sane person would have had him crucified when there was all that free booze to be had!

My favourite Jesus theory is that he was a Buddhist.

Regardless of whether Jesus existed or not, and which, if any, of the stories about him are true, the bible was written by men with their own intentions. And they were clearly successful at spreading their message because here we are 2000 or so years later still talking about it.

I really want to watch Life of Brian now...

My favourite Jesus theory is that he was a Buddhist. An enlightened being like the Buddha.

I’m not religious at all, but if I could meet and talk to one person of everyone who has ever lived, it might be him. He must have been the most influential person in the history of the world by a long way, it’d be fascinating to see what the fuss was about.

I am really enjoying this thread.
I was raised catholic but, simply, never believed in god and at around the age of 12 refused to go to mass.
What fascinates me is people who actually believe in all those stories ...people I grew up with, cousins, old school friends who still attend mass, etc.
I wonder do they really believe or are they just going along as it it were some sort of club?

Yes, without a doubt.

Presumably those who don't believe will not be celebrating Christmas then!

Yes I do believe someone fitting much of the descriptions of Jesus existed (not the god part)

The word virgin ran away and copied religions prior to Christianity- it was "young woman" and evolved to become "virgin"

Parents must have existed if Jesus did

But lots of additions to his life to make him more exciting probably - a bit like Christopher Robin not actually going on adventures with a pig and bear eating honey...

And why shouldn't Christmas be celebrated if you don't believe the nativity? It's a pagan festival

Toddler - as Christmas was originally a pagan festival celebrating the winter solstice - Saturnalia, and still incorporates many elements of paganism, then I will be celebrating it. I presume you put up a pagan Xmas tree ??

'Christmas' is a mid Winter celebration for feasting and partying and exchanging gifts, etc.,before we face the second part of winter.
It's got absolutely nothing to do with Jesus !

No I don't bother as I don't have space and the cars would destroy it. Put out a crib though.

My understanding is that there is evidence that Jesus existed, but the nativity story is fictional. Historical scholars generally agree that the Census of Quirinius never actually happened, and was invented in order to explain the claim that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, which would fulfill Old Testament prophecy about the Messiah. The logistics of requiring everyone to return to their hometown for a census would be a nightmare, and Herod the Great was already dead by the time Jesus was born, anyway.

And we know quite a lot about how the Empire was administered, so the journey to the home area to be "taxed" makes no sense at all. It is just not factual.

Yes I do.

It's got absolutely nothing to do with Jesus !

Oh, but I think it does. I think it symbolizes the same sort of thing he used to preach - having hope, living in peace, being kind, giving to others even when you have little yourself, and all of that.

I feel genuinely quite saddened by how blithely people say quite contemptuous things about the central (human) people in my religion on this thread even though it’s to be expected given this is a British forum and the British are notoriously disrespectful to religion. I feel the same.

Of course Jesus existed. He was a very naughty boy.

Yes, I believe they existed and it's all true.

When I was in Israel I asked some Jewish people who they thought he was. One said "a trouble maker" and another said "the guy with all the drugs".

I feel genuinely quite saddened by how blithely people say quite contemptuous things about the central (human) people in my religion on this thread even though it’s to be expected given this is a British forum and the British are notoriously disrespectful to religion. I feel the same.

I feel the opposite. We should all be more critical of religion.

Nope.
It’s a made up fable.
Absolute tosh.