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Do you think Mary, Joseph and Jesus existed?

342 replies

Papergirl1968 · 28/11/2018 20:02

Do you think Mary, Joseph and Jesus existed? I thought about putting this under religion, but thought there’d be a wider range of views on chat.
I’m not religious any more (was raised Methodist) but the Christmas story is something I think about occasionally, usually when I’m singing carols to the cat Smile.
My own view is that they probably did exist, but I don’t buy the son of god thing. I’d hazard a guess that Mary got pregnant by Joseph when they were being intimate, even if they didn’t technically have sex. So she panicked and either invented or dreamed a convenient story about the angel telling her she was carrying the son of god.
I believe there’s evidence that they would have had to travel to Bethlehem - although not at Christmas - and that there was a bright star in the sky etc.
And I think Jesus may well have had children. Or maybe I just took the Da Vinci Code too seriously...
Would be interested to hear what others think.

OP posts:
roisinagusniamh · 02/12/2018 09:58

But if you don't believe in god (the christian one) how can you be forgiven??
I don't think christians are inferior but some
are deluded and would appear to lack the skills to analyse critically.

Anasnake · 02/12/2018 10:00

Bertram you're talking belief not proof, faith not fact. Your thinly veiled threats will have no effect on those who do not believe in your god or any god.

BertramKibbler · 02/12/2018 10:01

I don't think christians are inferior but some
are deluded and would appear to lack the skills to analyse critically.

So much irony is one sentence!

I believe in the same God as all monotheistic religions do. You don’t need to believe in him for him to forgive you. God loves everyone.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Anasnake · 02/12/2018 10:03

You're speaking as if your beliefs are fact, they are not.

BertramKibbler · 02/12/2018 10:03

They are to me.

Anasnake · 02/12/2018 10:04

But not to others, that's the whole point of the thread.

BertramKibbler · 02/12/2018 10:08

Yes but I’m trying to point out that you can be critical of my faith without being critical of me as a person.

You don’t need to say horrible things about a Christian when saying that you don’t believe Jesus was the son of God.

You don’t need to say that I must have a weak mind to believe in Jesus. I wouldn’t say you must have a weak mind to not believe. I accept that we all have a different view on things.

It is my belief that God will forgive those who denied him in life but those who have lived badly (for example by being prejudiced towards others) will need to actively seek that forgiveness.

roisinagusniamh · 02/12/2018 10:10

Bertram,
You are not converting any non believers here, but l suspect, may be beginning to doubt your own beliefs.

Anasnake · 02/12/2018 10:15

No, you've said that those who do not share your beliefs will have to answer to god and beg his forgiveness, and then act all baffled and bewildered that people would question such statements.
Do you think I'm going to burn in Hell because I'm an atheist and don't believe in any of it ?

SummerStrong · 02/12/2018 10:22

I believe that Jesus did exist, but the stories about him written in the bible are mostly fiction / exaggerated.

For e.g. the story of Jonah being swallowed by a whale and then emerging 3 days later alive and well...is obviously pure fiction.

The bible is a book written by many people, edited and collated by many more...so obviously is not factual but a fictional 'guide' to how to live your life (for one religion) at that time (although the general teachings of 'right and wrong' do apply today, lots of it is not relevant for modern day)

headinhands · 02/12/2018 10:46

Wow, there’s a lot of people on this thread who will be seeking forgiveness when the times comes!

For what?

BertramKibbler · 02/12/2018 10:49

How arrogant to think that I’m doubting my own beliefs Hmm

At no point have I said you will burn in hell for not believing, I’ve said that people will have to seek forgiveness for living such unpleasant lives. I’ve actually said that about 3 or 4 times now. I’m not acting bewildered at all, I’m just explaining myself (over and over again, in the same way!)

A final point for anyone who hasn’t understood what I’m saying. You can insult Christianity without insult the Christian.

It’s surely important to be decent people regardless of your belief in God?

Anasnake · 02/12/2018 10:51

I didn't say you'd already said it, I asked if you believed that - Do you ? You haven't answered the question. If god doesn't forgive you, where do you think you go ?

Bechetdiagnosed · 02/12/2018 10:53

So we will begin to think your right that it is all cobblers?

One word. NO Grin

BertramKibbler · 02/12/2018 10:53

I believe God forgives everyone who seeks forgiveness because he loves everyone.

If you’ve done awful things (and just to be clear, I do not count not believing in God as an awful thing) and don’t believe they’re awful and do not repent then you will go to hell.

Bechetdiagnosed · 02/12/2018 10:59

I don't think christians are inferior but some
are deluded and would appear to lack the skills to analyse critically.

You are a bigot.

roisinagusniamh · 02/12/2018 11:05

Betch, perhaps you need to hide this thread.
Bertram, what and where is hell ?
That is not a rational belief !

Ironfloor269 · 02/12/2018 11:09

I strongly believe that Jesus existed. His parents were probably Mary and Joseph. I believe he was a charismatic, magnetic man that influenced a strong following much like any other (religious) leader. He married or had a relationship with Mary Magdalene but this part of his life was concealed by the heavily patriarchal Catholic church.

I don't, for a moment, however, buy into the son of God and the immaculate conception stuff though.

Bechetdiagnosed · 02/12/2018 11:15

roisinagusniamh

Betch is not an abbreviation of my user name. I’m assuming you are referring to me?

What makes you think that Betch needs to hide the thread?

roisinagusniamh · 02/12/2018 11:39

Sorry I meant to write Bechet ,
I think you're becoming a bit too invested and resorting to name calling which isn't very 'christian' or indeed very mature. I hope your god will forgive you . l forgive you though because l think you're getting overwrought .
However, if you stay on this thread you may learn something that could change / question your beliefs and that can only be a good thing.

TwitToWoo · 02/12/2018 11:45

Bertram

It’s actually deeply offensive and frankly disgusting to basically threaten people who don’t share your beliefs. That the threat you’re attempting is embarrassingly inane given that atheists don’t believe your God exists is neither here nor there.

Is this an example of Christian love?

Everybody on this thread, without exception, has addressed what people have posted - not made value judgements about their characters.

Dione attempted to dismiss me as some clueless Googler acting on confirmation bias - all so that she could support her own belief in a historical Jesus with no better reason than that “all the historians think so”. Actually, they don’t all think so - and it IS intellectually lame to offer evidence that you yourself do not understand. She does not know why there has (recently) been a historical consensus and what the issues are, so why would she even mention it?

The “consensus” could very well be wrong - which makes anyone relying on it as evidence look a bit silly.

But what Dione was actually trying to do was appeal to authority (a logically fallacious way to approach anything) in order to shut down a conversation she doesn’t want other people to have.

You have tried to achieve the same thing with, basically, threats of hellfire.

I don’t appreciate either approach, and absolutely nobody should be accepting such morally bankrupt behaviour.

The evidence for Jesus is non-existent. That is simply a fact and people are allowed to talk about it.

If any Christian feels “offended” then that’s their problem to deal with.

Bechetdiagnosed · 02/12/2018 11:56

I was not name calling. I labelled you. Therefore I do not need forgiveness.

roisinagusniamh · 02/12/2018 12:01

You are forgiven for labelling / name calling Bechet .
l insist !

Bechetdiagnosed · 02/12/2018 12:12
Grin
DioneTheDiabolist · 02/12/2018 12:49

Everybody on this thread, without exception, has addressed what people have posted - not made value judgements about their characters.

That's not true and really quite ironic considering the rest of your post which describes people morally bankrupt for not agreeing with you. It is not morally bankrupt to base knowledge and argument on scholarly research.

Your beginning to sound like a climate change denier or one of those people who believe the moon landings were a hoax.😂