Ds, Remembrance Day, white poppy- Daily Mail do your worst!

[BertrandRussell]

We are a pacifist family and we have always worn a red and a white poppy together at this time of the year. This year 17 year old ds has chosen to wear a white one on it's own to his school remembrance service. I probably could have insisted he wear the two together as usual-should I have done? He was asked to take a significant role in the service and declined- the Head was very accepting of his reasons. I don't think he's just being a teenage dick-he's wearing a suit and has cleaned his shoes (is there anything more heart melting than a nearly adult boy in a suit?)-but ..but...what should I have done?

What does he say his reasons are?
If he can give you a reason that you believe he believes then I’d accept he’s not be a teenage - “look at me I’m different and argue with me if you dare” - dick.

Here you go Bert. An almost identical thread from some years back for you. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1075625-to-get-DD-a-white-poppy-to-wear-at-a-remembrance-service

Nothing? It’s his choice. I guess the most you can do is talk about his reasons and other people’s choices and the issues surrounding them.

As for being a typical teenage ‘look at me’ dick, if he was, isn’t that just what teenagers do in the process of finding out who they are? It doesn’t necessarily mean his choices are wrong.

Red poppies don't show an allegiance with war though. They show gratitude for the lives lost. Wearing a white one isn't a pacifist statement.

And my comment on the 8 year old thread:

Wrong place, wrong time.

No-one at your daughters Service of Remembrance will care that a 14 year old girl is 'pacifist and ani-war'. They will care that a 14 year old girl was disrespectful enough to 'make a stand' at a Service of Remembrance for our fallen troops. They will care that her parents did not care enough about the feelings of others, and did not advise her against it.

People who have chosen to attend a Service of Remembrance are there because they want to be, are there to remember and honour the fallen, are there because they believe in the Service, and wear their red poppies with pride.

If your daughter wants to make a difference, wants to make a stand, get her to do something more appropriate, get her to write to her MP, join the PPU, picket the Houses of Parliament - anything - just dont upset those that are there to remember.

No-one at your daughters service will be in a position of 'power', government or otherwise, no-one there would be able to make a difference to our foreign or Armed Forces policies - so why make a stand there?

Unless she is attention seeking...?

Shoulder to shoulder with those who Serve

@exLtEveDallas

Well said. 👏

Yes, why at the rememberance day ceremony? Why take a stand at a ceremony that is about remembering the fallen? I think it’s crass and offensive. It would upset me, because it shows a lack of respect for the people who are remembering people they have heard about and who they are related to, along with all the other people who died. It isn’t about whether you agree with war, and this year, 100 years after the war, none of us remembering would have been directly affected by the events/reasons/victories/losses, but I will still be thinking of my great great uncle who died 3 days before armistace, telegram received after the war was declared over, and thinking what a waste, how sad. It dignifies him and what happened to him, rather than celebrating a war.

So I would be cross and sad if I saw someone wearing a white poppy at a service because it’s provacative and virtue signalling which misunderstands the purpose and meaning behind the service and the act of rememberance.

Why not just not wear a poppy at all rather than appropriating the emblem and twisting it to make a political point?

I think anyone who thinks that white poppies are disrespectful are missing the point.

That old thread is interesting. I notice that I said on it that I wasn't letting ds, who must have been about 10, wear a white poppy because I didn't think he was old enough to understand and make an informed choice.

"Why not just not wear a poppy at all rather than appropriating the emblem and twisting it to make a political point?"
Out of interest, how old do you think the white poppy is?

A red poppy commemorates the sacrifice made by soldiers. White poppies remember all those who died and the incredible loss suffered during war. I don’t see anything wrong with wearing a white poppy. It encompasses more than just military dead. But I do think that refusing to take part in the service is indicative of more than just remembering everyone who died. The white poppy isn’t the problem. His opinions on the other hand seem problematic. What exactly is it that he believes?

I think there is a case for the white poppy but it's not at a service to remember those who have fallen for our freedom.

Where on earth did people get the stupid idea that red poppies glorify war?
They are worn in remembrance of the millions of conscripted soldiers who were given no choice but to sacrifice their young lives for our current freedom. We owe them a massive and humbling debt of gratitude.
Parading about in a white poppy is disrespectful, attention seeking and frankly despicable. My family fought in both world wars, along with millions of others - if they hadn’t, you’d be wearing your “pacifist” poppy with a swastika attached.

Surely if you're a pacifist, you should feel more angry about the waste of life in the world wars and want their sacrifice to be remembered? I can't really find an acceptable reason for not taking part in a remembrance service.

What point is being missed? Wearing a white poppy is appropriating a symbol that is important to lots of people and making a point at a particular time when making that point will cause offence.

I’m trying to think of an analogy that suits. Something like attending a funeral service for someone with strong views on say faith wearing totally inappropriate dress, or an inverted crucifix at a baptism, in order to demonstrate your own thoughts and beliefs, when the most appropriate response would be to a) not go or b) dress suitably.

I agree with pp that it's attention seeking, as is starting a thread about it.

Don't wear one at all then. It's pathetic having to make such as statement
As is mentioning the daily mail.

A statement. Meaningless too and don't forget many who lost their young lives had no choice but to go to war.
It's fine and dandy being a pacifist when you have a choice. Have some respect for those who had no choice
And choose a different day to show your pacifist credentials

I know the white poppy has been around for an age. Remember the same discussion when I was a child, and the same response that they are not appropriate. The fact that they’ve been around for a long time doesn’t make it ok to wear one at a rememberance service in my opinion.

And he does sound like a duck but, with luck, he has time to grow out of it
He may blush as red as the poppy when he thinks back

You do know that the white poppy campaign was started, among other people, by war widows?

Dick FFS autocorrect

You can now also have a purple poppy to remember the millions of animals that died in wars.

Here is the Royal British Legion's official position on other colours of poppy:

The Royal British Legion has no objection to any other colour of Poppy in principle, and some volunteers wear these side by side. However our volunteers should not offer these alongside the traditional red Poppy, as it may cause confusion around the appeal.

Well tell him to stop appropriating the war widows grief then. I am presuming he isn't a war widow?

Yes that’s another thing that’s offensive - suggests that people who take issue are going to be daily mail readers (makes a judgement about their political persuasion and or thickness). I’m a long way away from sharing the daily mail perspective on many many things but still find it inappropriate to wear a white poppy to a rememberance ceremony.