Ds, Remembrance Day, white poppy- Daily Mail do your worst!

[BertrandRussell]

We are a pacifist family and we have always worn a red and a white poppy together at this time of the year. This year 17 year old ds has chosen to wear a white one on it's own to his school remembrance service. I probably could have insisted he wear the two together as usual-should I have done? He was asked to take a significant role in the service and declined- the Head was very accepting of his reasons. I don't think he's just being a teenage dick-he's wearing a suit and has cleaned his shoes (is there anything more heart melting than a nearly adult boy in a suit?)-but ..but...what should I have done?

Why post this? Why not just wear one?

If that's what he believes then it's fine.
The Red poppy is specifically for British soldiers, there are different colours for other nations the French for example wear the Bleuet (cornflower).
The white poppy is to remember all victims of war regardless and a commitment to peace.
They may be there remembering someone who has died in a war or conflict that wasn't a member of the British services or was even a civilian. God forbid maybe someone who was on the opposing side.

I think if you look down or get offended by someone at a remembrance service because they are wearing a different colour to you, shoes we haven't really moved on from the reasons war happens.
I wear a white poppy and have done for many years, I don't get offended by people wearing a red poppy. I'm remembering family members who fought in different conflicts that weren't British, is my families loss and sacrifice lesser to yours.
And yes I had family members serve and die serving in the British army in both wars as well.

I live in Flanders, and haven't seen any white poppies growing here...just red ones.

The Flemish town near me has red metal poppies in a garden, leading to an avenue of tree trunks whose ends are painted red and black to look like a poppy,

Wear the poppy, dont wear the poppy, wear different coloured poppy, wear the red poppy.

As a nation we've got to angsty about what other people are or aren't doing about remembrance day, with all the hype around what newsreaders, footballs aren't wearing poppies, the different coloured poppies etc it feels like we spend more time arguing about that then remembering the fallen at times.
Would be far better if we ignored what other people did and focused on our own remembrance.

Bert, if your son had a friend die, and his family asked for mourners to wear (for example) a yellow tie - would he purposely wear a red one? Or if the family asked for donations in lieu of flowers to a Mental Health charity, would he donate (and publicise his donation) to a Cancer charity?

I'm thinking not.

People who have lost family, friends, or colleagues in Military Conflicts, and who many rely on the money/help/support that that RBL provides (because a succession of bastard Governments don't support them), would feel this was a needlessly political message at a Service to remember them.

It's not the place to do it.

The purchase of RBL poppies raises money to help those in Service, Veterans and the families of both. The purchase of white poppies raises money for the PPU. Wearing both together would be far less political and more respectful.

(And as for the HLS tweet - Whilst I don't believe that he has been in control of his own Twitter for many years now, the tone, content and language has changed enormously over the last few years, and often changes in between tweets, I also point out that he hasn't 'needed' the services that the RBL provides, so it's very easy for him to say "don't buy a RBL Poppy" - he obviously doesn't care about those who do, which doesn't make him a very nice person in my view)

I never see any of these white poppies thank God. I just put my money in the tin and might pick up a red poppy. The tray of poppies I saw in my local shop was almost empty. I can almost guarantee that the people buying poppies are not Daily Mail readers because I am in Scotland. More likely to be Daily Record readers.

More than just British soldiers died. Or do they not count? People forget that war isn't just one sided, people from other countries were forced to go to war too.

And i say that as the daughter of serving soldier.

Op, someone needs to tell your son not all attention is good attention

Well tell him to stop appropriating the war widows grief then. I am presuming he isn't a war widow?

So much about Remembrance Day could be deemed 'appropriating grief'. Looking at all of the things people are doing, many of which seem pointless (not talking about those people who are related to the people they are remembering). Nothing will bring these people back. Nothing is preventing other wars (and look at what is happening in the world around us). So much posturing amongst genuine remembrance.

Let him wear what he wants - as long as it’s personal to him and not 'look at me', then I don’t see the problem.

My mother, who lost a brother in war and had another come back changed forever, never wore a red poppy. I think wearing a red poppy has become a political statement, and I hate the judgement meted out to those who choose not to wear one for whatever reason, usually by people who are far removed from those who actually experienced war. Your son is 17, he is old enough to know his own mind, and to fight his own battles. Be proud he has a mind of his own

I am not wearing a poppy at all this year. I used to enjoy the simplicity of this time of year, getting the poppy, wearing it on everything. It now seems stressful, divisive, people getting angry at each other, public pressure and performance, the straightforward symbolism is gone. If I'm in town and see somewhere to buy a poppy and donate, I may do. It's not a firm stance. But I do feel it's not as respectful as it used to be or a time for contemplation, with all the poppy policing which is against freedom in every sense.

which is against freedom in every sense

This is spot on. Forcing somebody to wear something actually diminishes what it stands for.

I always used to start conversations about how we don't commemorate or remember the women raped in war by soldiers on all sides ...

Red poppy to remember people who have their lives for your freedom. Whatever your political beliefs are they should not be brought up at a remembrance service for the dead. Disrespectful and self indulgent

It all sounds very self indulgent and look at me.

I used to wear a white poppy as a teenager - I honestly had no idea it was seen as rude or disrespectful! I don't wear a poppy at all now because the way it's become such a big deal makes me uncomfortable, although I do buy one and donate.

A white poppy is still a poppy, and still joining in with the remembrance. Teenagers are often very "pacifist" and idealist without understanding the full reasons why wars have sometimes been unavoidable, but it's still an admirable starting point.

As for being a typical teenage ‘look at me’ dick, if he was, isn’t that just what teenagers do in the process of finding out who they are? It doesn’t necessarily mean his choices are wrong.

Exactly, I agree with this. Teenagers experiment and explore ideas, usually idealist ones, and that's a good thing. A teen in a white poppy would make me think he'd be an interesting kid. Not "Oh how offensive!!!"

I'm getting so bored with the increasing inability of people to cut others some slack sometimes.

OP is on ‘transmit only’, no incoming information received.

Excellent point.

OP - Why did you ask?

And imo, YAVVU and so is your son.

A white poppy is still a poppy, and still joining in with the remembrance.

Except it isn't really, it's using the remembrance to make a point. That's not the same as the act of remembrance at all.

"OP is on ‘transmit only’, no incoming information received."
Sorry- not sure what you want me to say?

I asked because I am genuinely uneasy about wearing a white poppy only and wondered whether I should have insisted that he wear both-as is our family's usual practice.

I think you have your answer in the majority of posters above.

I wouldn’t find a white poppy disrespectful. It’s still a poppy. That person is still remembering those who died. I find all the seething anger on this thread exhausting and depressing.

At my child’s primary school they have made a few white and purple poppies to go with the red poppies that will decorate the local memorial on Sunday.

No offence is meant. All the poppies are about remembering the dead on Remembrance Day. The day isn’t owned by the RBL!

People are completely missing the fact that white poppies remember ALL casualties of war, military or civilian, British or otherwise. How is that going against the act of Remebrance??? British casualties are not the only ones that count.

As for it representing Peace surely that can only be a good thing?? Unless the lad is going in there with his chest puffed out & a banner saying 'red poppies mean war' the only disrespectful people will be the ones who make a scene about a white poppy

join imo, and maybe this is just the people I've met who wear white poppies, it feels very often like the person is more concerned with how they are viewed rather than remembering the war dead.

I think it would have been better for him to have still wear the red poppy alongside his white one.

I don't really agree with the white poppy situation, because the red poppy appeal is more meaningful in remembering the blood spilt in Flanders fields, where the poppies grow in abundance - but I understand why some people prefer it.
It's just not really the same thing, is it.
And the money from the Poppy Appeal is supposed to go to help ex-servicemen, who, let's face it, probably need a lot of help. Where does the money from the white poppies go? metro.co.uk/2018/10/25/where-does-white-poppy-money-go-what-the-peace-pledge-union-do-with-their-proceeds-8074618/

There is no "glorification" of war in wearing a red poppy, I don't honestly know who thinks this sort of shit up!