Ds, Remembrance Day, white poppy- Daily Mail do your worst!

[BertrandRussell]

We are a pacifist family and we have always worn a red and a white poppy together at this time of the year. This year 17 year old ds has chosen to wear a white one on it's own to his school remembrance service. I probably could have insisted he wear the two together as usual-should I have done? He was asked to take a significant role in the service and declined- the Head was very accepting of his reasons. I don't think he's just being a teenage dick-he's wearing a suit and has cleaned his shoes (is there anything more heart melting than a nearly adult boy in a suit?)-but ..but...what should I have done?

The red poppy was worn by my gt grandmother, also a war widow.

I'm a very left wing pacifist but I think using remembrance services to make political statements is a bit of a dickish thing to do to be honest. Either participate or don't, don't use it as an excuse to prove a point.

“Well tell him to stop appropriating the war widows grief then. I am presuming he isn't a war widow?”

I presume you aren’t a WW11 veteran?

Daily Mail do your worst!
Be careful what you wish for OP, I know a young lad who was the subject of a DM article over some ill-judged social media posturing; it will always be the first thing that comes up when you google his name. Why on earth would you want that for your son?

@Bertrand To be accurate, the white poppy movement in the UK was started in the 1930s by the Co-operative Women's Guild. Undoubtedly some of its members will have been war widows.

To those who think it is disrespectful, you do know that the original red poppy was created solely to remember the British dead? The idea behind the white poppy in the 1920s (although it wasn't actually taken up for a few years) was to remember ALL casualties of ALL wars. The white poppy was started bu the CWG and distributed by the Peace Pledge Union.

I agree with eclecticmonkey
bertrand did you start this post to actually get opinions or as a soapbox for your own....?

Sorry electric monkey

Others have put it better, but for the sake of " weighing the postbag":

I'd think he was being insensitive and piggybacking on the organised service.

Often I see the advice in similar situations to join with others to organise an alternative event?

You knew when you sent him off wearing his white poppy that people would find it disrespectful and attention seeking, just as you did when you started this thread. You've been arguing this point, in one way or another, every November for the past 10 years that ive been on MN.

Not the time or place is it?

Ah, I see.

Why do these discussion always turn so American liberal so quickly? Do we really need to talk anymore it appropriation? Does it make any difference whether he was wearing an ‘appropriated’ poppy or aprace symbol? No. The issues here are pacifism and it translating in a refusal to acknowledge the service that veterans has given our country.

I think this is totally disrespectful.
Most of us are 'pacifists'.
Don't you think the 14 year olds- three years younger than him-sent to war, who were terrified, and often wetting themselves and crying when sent onto battle, and who were injured and died, were also pacifists?
What about the parents, wives, sisters, girlfriends, daughters who lost their men? Do you think they supported war?
I wouldn't let my child go if he were to wear a white poppy.
I suggest your son look seriously at the sacrifices the country made to fight for our freedom, the lives that were lost and the great loss to our country. If he then cannot bring himself to wear a symbol OF THE LIVES LOST, then he shouldn't wear one at all and he should abstain from attending a service which gives thanks and respect to those who died amongst the poppies in Flanders Fields.
I don't think he is deliberately being disrespectful, but I do think you as an adult should show him that he is.

I feel that wearing a white poppy on its own to a remembrance service is crass and thoughtless.

Wear it at any other time, or wear it alongside a red poppy, but to wear it alone as some sort of pacifist statement is IMO insensitive.

A service of remembrance is just that - to pay respect and gratitude and remember all of those who died in conflict. To choose that platform to demonstrate your opposition to war is disrespectful and wholly insensitive.

Red poppies do not glorify, support or celebrate war. They acknowledge those who were caught up in it.

If your son wants to make a point then encourage him to lobby politicians, support the RBL, volunteer for peace groups.

So- you've been asking/commenting for over 8 years. Have you not found a consensus yet or juts enjoy reasking? A red poppy doesn't glorify or symbolise war. If that's what you've taught him, then I feel quite sorry for him. By all means wear a white one too- but maybe you shouldn't have allowed your own views to be so coloured (excuse the pun) then explaining the symbolism. It's a symbol to remover the dead- not to glorify the way they died. To take time to reflect that they fought for the liberties we have. The liberty to stand up and say you don't agree with something. So don't disrespect that on the day we recognise it.

I think I may step away from this thread now. But before I do, I'll leave you a screenshot of a twitter spat between a "show respect-if it wasn't for them you'd all be speaking German" person and an actual, real veteran. I suggest those of you who haven't already read some of Harry Smith's work. Sobering, enlightening and inspiring.

Why is he going to the service, but declining a role in it?

OP is on ‘transmit only’, no incoming information received.

IMO, wearing a white poppy isn’t disrespectful. It has a long a f important history, and includes people that are overlooked by the red poppy. And it’s no more a “political statement” than wearing a red one is. All the accusations flung at people with white poppies could be flung at people with white ones. They’re all just symbols of beliefs that could easily be kept private, but people like to show off their opinions.

This whole poppy thing is getting out of hand. Whatever happened to choice? As long as your DS isn't being a dick & making a public stand at a Remembrance service, the colour of his poppy isn't important. A white poppy isn't offensive ffs, unless you believe that remembering ALL casualties of war is offensive.

Choice isn't choice if it is forced. I would much rather know that somebody is wearing a poppy because it means something to THEM not because somebody has poked them in the chest & told them they have to.

Gosh. It wouldn't occur to me to find a white poppy offensive in the slightest. I think it's a perfectly respectful way to remember the dead but also make it clear that you firmly believe it must never happen again.

I have no issue with the white poppy, or the purple poppy but I don’t think they should be worn in place of a red poppy.
There is nothing anti-peace or pro-war about remembering the poor men and women who died as part of our war efforts. I would consider it very disrespectful to refuse to wear one at a remembrance day ceremony.

I don't think it wrong to turn and contemplate the war dead of a particular nation or closer still those from within our own town and perhaps our own families.

Sometimes by looking at the smaller picture it brings home the horror far more than talk of the larger generality could.

Peach green wearing a red poppy doesn't preclude that sentiment.